Chapter 07

[NOTE: This is a typed tape transcript and has not been edited or published, as of August 1992. It is for reference use only. The interviewer's remarks have been omitted where not relevant to Osho's words]

Q: WE BEING A WIRE SERVICE, AN AGENCY JOURNALIST, WE DO A PACKAGE FOR THE NEW YEAR, CHOOSING SIX OR SEVEN IMPORTANT PERSONALITIES ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR HERE IN INDIA AND SOUTHEAST ASIA. WE DECIDED YOU WERE THE PERSON WE SHOULD WRITE ABOUT. SO IT'S NOT A RIGID SORT OF INTERVIEW WE WILL HAVE.

A: That's good.

Q: WE HAVE CERTAIN QUESTIONS... BUT IF YOU WANT TO TELL US SOMETHING....

A: No, you can ask any question.

Q: WHEN YOU CAME HERE, BHAGWAN, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN MINDS OF YOUR DEVOTEES AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT YOUR NEW HOME. HAVE YOU FOUND IT OR WHERE IT WILL BE?

A: The home is something one never finds. One is always finding it, and the joy and ecstasy is in the search.

I am reminded of a small poem of Rabindranath Tagore. He is in search of God.

He looks all over the world, and finally he finds the home of God. He goes up to the door, is just going to knock on the door. A question arises in his mind: If by chance he is in, then what? Then what I am going to do? My whole life has been a search, I have been a wanderer, and this will be the end; this will be actually committing suicide." So without knocking on the door he escapes from the place as fast as he can. Now he is still searching, knowing perfectly well where it is.

Avoiding that place he goes on searching and enjoying the search.

I love that poem immensely, because life should be a search, not a finding. The finding means the full point has arrived.

Death is a finding.

Life is gypsy.

So I am still searching for the home. And I will go on searching for the home, knowing perfectly well the home is not something that has to be found. It has to be searched -- but not found.

Q: COULD IT BE, BHAGWAN, IN THE NORTH OF INDIA TO FIND A HOME?

A: No, I am searching all over the world. My people are searching everywhere.

Q: YOU SAID YOU ARE SEARCHING ALL OVER THE WORLD. THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF CONFUSION BECAUSE WHEN YOU CAME BACK YOU SAID YOU ARE GOING TO LIVE IN THE HIMALAYAS AND NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOMELAND, INDIA, AGAIN. SO I THINK IT IS MORE AS A SIMILE YOU SAID THAT.

A: No. To me the earth is not divided by political lines, and words like " India" are certainly symbolic. It simply means the eternal search for truth.

"Himalaya" is also a symbol, a symbol for peace, serenity, silence.

The physical, the material, is not important. You should listen to the significance, the symbolic meaning in it.

To me, India is not confined by the boundaries. Anybody who has been a seeker of truth is part of India. He may be Henry Thoreau in America, he may be Martin Buber in Jerusalem, he may be Bertrand Russell in England, he may be a Socrates in Athens -- but these people belong to a certain, symbolic world which is not parallel to the geographical and the political.

For example, most of the Indians are not Indians. The majority of them has no concern for the spiritual. They are more greedy than I have found people anywhere else. They are more materialistic than the people they condemn as materialistic.

So when I said I will never leave India, that simply means wherever I am, India is there; and wherever I am, Himalaya is there.

Q: BHAGWAN, THIS QUESTION MAY SOUND STUPID...

A: No....

Q:... BUT I WANT TO ASK: ARE YOU THINKING OF NOMINATING A SUCCESSOR FOR YOUR MOVEMENT?

A: First, I am not a founder of a movement, I am not a head of a movement. How can I think of a successor? To me, spirituality is absolutely individual. The moment you organize it, you kill it. You can see it all around the world in all the religions, just corpses.

There is a very famous story that a man came running to the devil and told him that, "What are you doing sitting here! A certain man on the earth has found the truth. Do something; otherwise your business is finished!"

The devil laughed. He said, "You are a new servant here -- you don't know me.

My people have already reached there; they have become his successors his priests, his scholars. They are standing between him and the people. They will not let the truth reach the people without their interpretation -- and their interpretation is my interpretation."

It is a tremendously beautiful anecdote.

Mahavira was against Brahmanism, his whole revolt was against Brahmanism, but his eleven chief disciples were all Brahmins. He never wrote a single word; these eleven Brahmins wrote all the scriptures, and Jainism has been worshipping those scriptures for twenty-five centuries.

Now this is very strange: a man who is against Brahmanism is represented by Brahmins to the whole world.

The same happened to Buddha. He was also against the Vedas, against the Upanishads, against the whole tradition of Hinduism, but he found all his successors Brahmins. They turned, they changed, they made meanings that was easy for them. They listened from a Hindu mind. Whatever Buddha had said, they managed to support it, exactly what he was opposing.

So I am not a founder. There have been many founders and nothing has been founded.

I am just an individual seeker who has started alone, and then people went on coming; and the caravan became bigger and bigger, but the caravan has no leader, and each individual is responsible whether to be in the caravan or not to be in the caravan. It is his freedom.

So my whole approach is individualistic, and against all kinds of organizations and the successors and the churches and the shankaracharyas and the popes an Ayatollah Khomeiniacs. All these are not seekers of truth, they are exploiters of the masses in the name of truth.

At the most I can call myself a friend.

Nobody is my follower. I love them, they love me; there is no question of putting me on any high pedestal. I am absolutely happy where I am. And the best place is the lowest because from there you cannot fall.

Q: IT IS THE THINKING OF PEOPLE, IS THAT YOUR STAY IN OREGON... WE HAVE SEEN PHOTOS AND VIDEOS... PEOPLE HAVE SEEN. IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF LIVING IN LUXURY. HERE IT IS MORE A SPARTAN EXISTENCE. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS?

A: To me luxury is something inner. A king may be living in misery, and a beggar may be living in luxury. It is the quality of your being, the flowering of your potential -- the peace, the silence, the blissfulness. I don't see any difference.

I can be in a palace or I can be in a small cottage, but I remain myself. Neither the palace affects me nor the cottage. So I am not here living in a Spartan existence; I am living as luxuriously as I have always lived.

And you must know that for thirty years I have not possessed a single thing -- no bank account. I have been in America for five years but I have not seen a single dollar bill, I have not touched money.

People have seen me in Rolls Royces -- they were not mine; they belonged to the commune.

Everything belonged to the commune and they simply made it available for me to be used.

And the moment I left America... I have not brought a single thing from there; they are all with the commune. Even from my shoes up to my cap, they are all made by my friends. They are not mine; they are gifts of love. Even the watch you see is being made by my friends.

Q: IN DELHI YOU CALLED IT "PROLETARIAN STONE."

A: Yes, they are proletarian stones; they are not diamonds. It is the cheapest watch.

It is a question of how you live, not in what you live.

When after twelve days in American jails -- five jails -- I left the jail, the U.S.

marshall told me, "This is strange, you look better than you had come before! It seems jail life suits you."

I said, "Everything suits me. It is not a question of things, it is simply an art how to make the best out of the worst. I was not miserable in your jails, I enjoyed the experience, it was so new, and I loved everything. I may have died without knowing it, so by the courtesy of the American government they have made my experience richer."

I could see that the criminals are far more human than the bureaucrats. I was surprised to know that in all five jails where are four hundred, five hundred prisoners in each jail, there is not a single white man, all are black. It was really a surprise that in America whites don't commit crime! And the blacks who are there, they have been there, somebody for six months, somebody for nine months without trial. They are waiting for trial. They have not committed any crime, nothing is proved against them by the court, so these are not jails -- you are befooling the whole world.

"You are keeping these black people -- and they are all young; I have not seen a single old black person here, they are all young. And you are afraid of these young people, that they are going to become revolutionaries. So you simply arrest them for no crime. They have been telling me that they have not committed any crime, they have not even dreamt of committing any crime, and suddenly they are being arrested in the middle of the night and nothing is told to them and they are said that the court will decide. And for nine months they are waiting and their trial number has not come, and perhaps it may come or may not come at all."

So I said, "I am more experienced about you about your politics and about your mask and what you are doing to people who have not done any crime and they are unnecessary being punished. And they are far more human than you."

And these twelve days gave me a tremendously significant experience, that you can throw me now in hell but you cannot disturb my silence."

So I told him a small story. I told him about Edmund Burke, one English philosopher. He had a friend who was the archbishop of England. And the archbishop was asking him again and again that, "Someday you should come to listen to my sermon."

One day finally he went there, listened to the sermon, raised his hand and asked a question to the archbishop. He asked, "My question is: You say that those who have faith will go to heaven; those who do good things will go to heaven; those who do not have faith will go to hell; those who do evil things, sinners they will go to hell. My problem is, a man can do good things without faith.

"Socrates was a good man but has no faith.

"Gautam Buddha was a good man but has no faith in any God.

"What about these people? And a man can have faith and still can commit all kinds of crimes, all evil possible.

"Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, Alexander the Great, all were faithful people but they killed millions of people.

"So my question is: If a man has no faith and does good works, what is going to happen to him? Have you any place where he is going to be sent? Of course he cannot go to heaven because he has no faith. He cannot be thrown to hell because he has not committed any evil acts. What about those who have faith but have committed evil acts?"

The archbishop was in a very difficult situation. He said, "Nobody has ever asked such a question, I have not come across in any theological treatise of such a question, so please give me seven days to think."

Seven days he could not sleep because the question was not only Edmund Burke's question, it became his question also; the question was significant.

Seventh day, the next Sunday, he reached early because still the question was there and there was no answer. He reached early in the church, prayed to Christ and asked that, "I cannot find the answer; you give me the answer; otherwise your representative will be proved stupid." But he was so tired, for seven days continuously thinking and not sleeping, that he fell asleep there on his knees and he had a dream. And in the dream he saw that he is in a train and he asked other passengers where they are going, and they said they are going to heaven.

He said, "That's good -- that's what I wanted." They reached heaven. He could not believe: it looked dirty, dusty, nobody laughing, nobody smiling; all faces long faces. He could not recognize anybody as Gautam Buddha, as Socrates. He inquired that, "Is Gautam Buddha here, or Socrates?"

They said, "We have never heard of these names."

So he rushed to the station, catched -- caught another train, going to hell. And he was surprised. The hell was really beautiful! Lush green... and people were so friendly, loving.

He inquired a man that, "Do you know about Gautam Buddha or Socrates -- are they here?"

The man said, "They are here, and because of them the hell has become heaven."

And at that point he awoke. And he was a sincere man. He related the whole dream. He said, "Forgive me, but the truth is that there are no geographical places like heaven and hell; it is a question of man's inner being. Everybody carries his hell or heaven within himself."

So I told him that, "Your twelve days, you were trying to give me hell, not knowing that I have my heaven within myself."

There is no way to throw me to hell.

Q: ON THE FIRST OF FEBRUARY TO THE TENTH THE POPE IS COMING TO INDIA. HOW DO YOU LOOK AT HIM, AND WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF HOW THE POPE STANDS TODAY?

A: First, anybody representing somebody else is a carbon copy. He is not authentic, and he is not original. His authority is not in his own experience but in the books he has read, in the Bible.

So the first thing: a man like pope has a personality, but he has no individuality.

He is an actor, pretending to be someone who he is not.

First, religion cannot be transferred; it is not a thing.

So Jesus cannot transfer it to anybody. He cannot make anybody his successor.

For two thousand years all these popes are deceiving the whole world, and they pretend that they are infallible. Obviously if they represent God and they represent the only son of God, Jesus Christ, they are bound to be infallible. But their whole history shows just the opposite.

For example, one pope declared Joan of Arc as evil, and burned her alive. But Joan of Arc was a woman of tremendous courage, sincerity, and the whole nation loved her, so slowly the people became suspicious of the act of the pope. In three hundred years the situation became very worse. People started thinking of Joan of Arc as right and pope as wrong.

Now, the only way was to somehow fix things rightly.

Another pope -- the first pope was infallible who burned the woman as representing devil. The second pope, after three hundred years, pulled the bones of the woman from the grave and declared that she was a saint -- because they were losing so many catholics on that point.

Now, what kind of infallibility is this? Who is infallible? Was the first pope infallible or this pope is infallible who is declaring Joan of Arc that she was a saint and he worshipped her -- bones.

For two thousand yeas the popes have done so much wrong to the world that no other religion can beat them. Hundreds of wars, thousands of people killed in the name of religion, millions of Jews being killed because Jesus was crucified. And the miracle is that Jesus was a Jew. He was born a Jew, he lived a Jew, he died a Jew; he had never heard the word "Christian," he had never heard the word "Christ" -- because in Hebrew there are no words like "Christ" or "Christian"; he was called "messiah." That is for "Christ." And in India we are right to call Christians messiah. That is closer to the original. "Christ" and "Christian" both are Greek. After three hundred years of Jesus' death when his sayings were translated into Greek he became "Jesus the Christ."

Now, these popes have been killing Jews not knowing that they are worshipping a Jew in every church. And they have not been appointed by Jesus.

And as far as Christianity is concerned, to me it is one of the worst religions in the world.

There is a book I would like to show you -- five hundred pages of pornography, in the Bible. And this is the word of God. Five hundred pages of worst pornography that has ever existed anywhere, with all kinds of perversions -- homosexuality, sodomy. And this book is the book of the God; God wrote this book. If God wrote this book, then he is the worst criminal and the best pornographer.

I am going to publish an illustrated version of it, because people reading pornography -- pornography is not for reading, it is for seeing. So I am going to find the best pornographers and make everything in it a beautiful pornographic painting, and publish the whole book.

It is strange that five hundred pages but no Christian reads them. I have given this book to one of my friends who is a bishop, and I told him that, "Can you give a sermon on any of the pages in this book?"

And after one month he told me that, "I cannot give a sermon on this book."

But I said, "This book is simply quoting Bible. You have been cheating the whole world; you have not been making them aware what your Bible contains. You have been choosing only selected passages and talking about."

But this is the worst thing that any religion has done.

Jesus himself to me is not a realized man for the simple reason that he declares that he is the only begotten son of God. That is nonsense. No man of intelligence will declare himself to be the only begotten son of God. And on what grounds?

He has no certificate for it. And everybody knows that he is a carpenter's son, but he goes on insisting that, "I am the only...." And he is very jealous; he will not allow even a second son to God -- very monopolist. He is the only begotten son of God.

And very strange. Where is the wife of God whom he is begotten, because in the Christian trinity there is no place for a woman. So it is a very strange thing that God, the holy ghost and Jesus Christ within themselves managed everything without a woman! A man is dispensable as far as the birth of a child is concerned. An injection can do that. But a woman is not dispensable. But just to degrade woman, just to make her inferior they could not accept a woman in the trinity; otherwise what is the need of the holy ghost? A small family would have been perfect -- God, his wife, son. But the problem is, if God has a wife then why only one son? Does he practice birth control?

This pope is going in India to continue to preach to everybody that birth control is sin; and I want him to remember that God practices birth control. He has given only one son to the world -- and in the whole eternity!

The teachings of Jesus does not show the heights of an enlightened man. His behavior shows just the opposite. For example, he says, "Love your enemies just as you love yourself." But he never teaches his disciples to love themselves. The whole Christianity is based in hating yourself. In fact all the religions more or less are based in hating yourself. Hate this, hate that. You are not to be accepted as you are; many things have to be cut from your life.

Sex has to be cut, anger has to be cut. So many things have to be thrown out that I suspect, what will remain? If we listen to all these religions, I don't think that you will remain behind.

And a man is an organic unity. You cannot deprive a man of his sexual energy because it is not something like mechanical that you can take apart, away from the machine. It is his biology. He is born in sex, his every cell in the body is sexual.

Jesus never teaches people to love themselves. He is teaching to love your enemies just as you love yourself -- but in his behavior he proves to be really idiotic.

He is passing from a village and the people are angry and nobody gives them food, and he is very irritated by this; for three days they have been hungry. And they come to a fig tree -- and it is not the season for figs so the tree has no figs.

And Jesus curses the tre that, "You are not welcoming me and my friends with fruits."

Now, a man who teaches to love your enemies, curses a fig tree when it is not the season for figs is simply a crackpot! I cannot think of Gautam Buddha doing it; I cannot conceive even an ordinary human being with just a little intelligence cursing a tree.

Q: THIS BOOK, BHAGWAN -- DO YOU PLAN TO PRESENT THE ILLUSTRATED VERSION BEFORE THE POPE ARRIVES HERE?

A: No, because it will take time. It will take time because five hundred pages means the illustrated will be one thousand pages with all the passages and the illustrations -- and I want it to be really, really Holy Bible.

Q: BHAGWAN, ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JOHN PAUL II. PEOPLE SAY HE HAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT IMAGE. SO ABOUT HIM WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING?

A: He is just an idiot. I was thinking that people unnecessarily call polacks idiots, but this pope proves that they are -- because whatever he has been teaching is against humanity.

He is teaching against birth control, against abortion, against the pill because he says children are given by God. So either the God is idiot that he gives children to Ethiopia where one thousand people are dying every day, or he is blind or he is only a computer. And he is going children, pouring on India.

By the end of this century India for the first time will be ahead of China. Up to now we have not been ahead of China; by the end of this century we will be one billion people, and we will be for the firs time ahead of China. Out of five people, one will be an Indian in the whole world.

People are already poor, people are already starving -- one billion people in this country.... I cannot conceive that God gives children to you.

I was talking to a bishop. He had come in the jail to give me a Bible, thinking that that will be a solace to me. Out of compassion he must be thinking that he has to visit and give me a Bible as a present because in jail, what I will be doing? -- read God's word and have faith in Jesus Christ and he will save you.

I said, "You don't be worried about my saving; Jesus could not save himself! And as far as your coming here is concerned and your teachings that God gives birth to children: on the one hand you say that God is omnipotent, all-powerful. He crated the world. What more power you can think? This whole universe he created out of nothing. But he is impotent against a small pill, he cannot destroy the effect of the pill?

Why teach people not to use the pill? The pill is the greatest revolution that has happened in the whole history of man because the pill brings woman equal to man, and the pill makes sex free from all kinds of ugly connotations; it becomes simple fun. It loses all seriousness -- children.

And then bringing up children and the whole nonsense.

And the woman's whole life is wasted in the kitchen and the children; and the husband's whole life is wasted in earning money the whole day. And then the woman is collecting anger the whole day because all her life she cannot do anything else. So she simply becomes a nagging wife.

Every wife is a nagging wife, and every husband is henpecked -- without exception. And the reason is simple, because you have created the situation.

Otherwise, in my commune for four yeas there was not a single child born. And there was nobody forcing. Simple intelligence is needed to be explained to people that if it is God's will he will manage somewhere else to produce.

There are fifty thousand planets, according to the scientists, where life exists; so if here he finds no vacancy he will find somewhere else. And God is omnipotent; there is no need for popes to go on preaching, but their preaching has a different meaning: they need poverty, they need more and more poor people in the world, because it is only the poor and the orphan and the beggars and the aboriginals who become Catholics who can be converted.

In India I have seen not a single rich man, educated, cultured, who has become converted to Catholicism; there is no reason. He has a far better religion and far higher flights of spirituality. Why he should become a Catholic and why he should become a Christian?

They need poor people so they are creating a poor world but they are playing with fire, because these poor people will be dying by the end of this century -- without any nuclear weapons, without even a third world war. These popes and the Mother Teresa and this kind of people are going to create as many poor people in the world that the world cannot support.

In India, my estimate is that fifty percent people will die just out of starvation by the end of this century if we do not prevent now. Thirty years before I started teaching birth control, the pill, abortion, and I was stoned, I was poisoned, attempts on my life were made because I was "creating immortality."

Q: WHERE WAS IT, SIR?

A: In Patna I was stoned, in Poona itself before ten thousand sannyasins and twenty police officers -- because they had got he information that some- thing is going to happen. A knife was thrown at me; and still the court dismissed the case, that, "There has been no case." The knife was there, twenty police offices were there, and it was a police case! Ten thousand witnesses were there -- and still the court dismissed the case.

And the magistrate sent me the message from a friend that, "Just forgive me, I am sorry; I am a small man the pressure is too much. That man has a political standing, and there is great politics involved in it."

Thirty years before when I started talking about these things, India had the population only four hundred million. Today it has eight hundred million. If they had listened to me thirty years before we would not have been eight hundred million now. We could have cut the population. We would have been far comfortable, far more healthier, far more educated in every way. But they did not listen, and they don't listen even now. Even now they will listen to the pope, and even now the Indian government will go to receive the pope. The president will be present there.

And this is an insult! The president should make it a condition that, "If you are coming here, you can be a guest only if you promise not to talk about birth control, the pill, abortion. Don't you have anything else to talk? This is all your religion? Just leave these things; otherwise you will not be received as a guest in India."

Mother Teresa wants orphans.

It happened that one American couple wanted to adopt one orphan from Mother Teresa's nursing home. They went there. The receiving clerk said that, "We have seven hundred children. You can choose. But before you go in, you fill the form."

They filled the form. Looking at the form, he was puzzled. He said, "You wait. I will be coming in a minute and then tell you."

He didn't come. Somebody else came and told that, "Right now there are no orphans so you will have to wait. When we have orphans we will inform you.

Your address is here. You have filled the form."

But the man said, "The person before you had said that there are seven hundred; suddenly seven hundred orphans have disappeared? And this is the gate, and I have not sen any orphan going out."

But the problem was he was a protestant -- that created the problem. He was not catholic. And he filled the form as a protestant Christian; that's where the whole problem begin.

He wrote a letter in "The Times of India" explaining the whole thing, that how MOther Teresa is playing the politics of numbers, turning catholics out of orphans. It is not a work of compassion or love; it is sheer politics.

I spoke against Mother Teresa, referred to the letter. She wrote me a letter and she said that there must have been some misunderstanding; in fact, because these orphans are brought up by us by us according to catholic religion, to give them to some other religion will create a mental difficulty, a conflict; that's why the person was refused.

I wrote to her that, "If this is the case, then none of your orphans is a Christian; even they are Hindus or they are Mohammedans. And if you are a sincere woman, then a Mohammedan orphan should be given to a Mohammedan family, and a Hindu orphan should be given to a Hindu family. Just, an orphans -- a six-month or eight-month or twelve-month old orphan... what catholicism you can teach? You are kidding!"

And then she was very angry because I exposed again in a public meeting and I challenged her that I am available anywhere if she wants for a discussion I am available.

She wrote another letter that, "I will not discuss with you because that is not our way, to fight in any way, but I will pray for you to my God to forgive you for your sins."

So I wrote to her that, "There is no God, and please before you start praying for me you have to have my permission; otherwise it is great trespass -- not only on the body, on the spirit. You are trespassing even in my spirituality. You cannot pray for me. And what sin I have committed that you are praying for me? You pray for yourself, for all your sins that you have been committing. And you are going to commit these sins because the world is so idiotic that even in India the universities go on giving doctorates to Mother Teresa, and the government Padamshri(*) and the Nobel prize. We don't see the point, what these people are doing. And their real purpose is somehow to increase the population of Catholics. Already there are six hundred million in the world.

Q: BHAGWAN, WE WOULD LOVE TO GO FOR HOURS AND HOURS, YOU KNOW....

A: That's true!

Q: CAN YOU ELABORATE YOUR FEELING ABOUT INDIA, INDIAN BUREAUCRACY, INDIAN FUNNY LAWS THAT YOU CANNOT BUY LAND THERE -- INDIAN MATERIALISM, AS YOU SAY. AND ALSO ASSOCIATED WITH THAT: HAS YOUR THINKING, WHICH YOU HAD EXPRESSED AFTER YOUR ARRIVAL IN DELHI ABOUT AMERICA, HAS THAT GONE THROUGH ANY CHANGE IN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS?

A: No, nothing has changed about America; but about India, certainly. I am feeling that it was not a right step for me to come back to India. At least in my imagination I was thinking that it is my motherland. Now I will think my motherland has died, because the Indian bureaucracy is creating every hindrance that they can, and it seems they are being dictated by the American government.

Because one thing they are doing that no foreigners should be allowed to stay with me.

Now this is strange for a country like India which wants to promote tourism. I can bring thousands of foreigners. But they are not giving visas to foreigner if they say they are going to see me, or if they come in orange clothes -- they are not allowed. And from the highest government sources I have been informed that the government is neither positive towards me nor negative.

But this situation will remain only until I continue to "behave." Now, what do they mean by "behave?" They want me not to talk, not to say the truth that I feel?

I will certainly continue to behave the way I have behaved my whole life. And now because they have made it a point, of course I will behave more emphatically.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THIS THING TOLD, BHAGWAN?

A: Just two days before. And it is there on their secret file. So my people I had to send to look lands in other places, and fortunately two countries from South America have invited me with my whole commune, and they want to be my host.

So I have sent people to look what kind of place they can give. But my own personal feeling is not to go to any country but to buy an independent island, because sooner or later the same problems will arise with any government. And we have found three islands which are available, which are independent. And within two, three weeks we will finalize one island.

Q: WHERE ARE THEY, BHAGWAN? IS IT POSSIBLE TO KNOW?

A: One is in Europe, one is near Canada, and one is in Fiji.

Q: AND THE COUNTRIES, BHAGWAN -- THE TWO SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES?

A: They don't want -- they say that, "Until you accept, please don't tell our names because that will be a insulting thing."

Q: CAN YOU NAME THREE TOP IDIOTS IN THE WORLD?

A: Mm mmm, this is a very difficult question! The first is certainly pope the polack. Second is Morarji Desai. And the third is attorney general of Oregon, Frohnmeyer. Good!