[NOTE: This is a typed tape transcript and has not been edited or published, as of August 1992. It is for reference use only. The interviewer's remarks have been omitted where not relevant to Osho's words]
INTERVIEW WITH BHASKAR, CORREO BRASILIENSE, BRASILIA, BRAZIL
QUESTION:* BHAGWAN, I'M SO GRATEFUL FOR THIS MOMENT. BRAZIL'S A VERY POOR COUNTRY. SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE ARE LIVING MISERY. THERE IS NO FOOD, NO HOUSING, NO EDUCATION. BUT THEY HAVE THREE HOPES: TO WIN AT THE LOTTERY, TO BE SAVED BY GOD, OR TO MAKE A POLITICAL REVOLUTION.
THERE IS A VERY POPULAR EXPRESSION IN BRAZIL WHICH SAYS, "GOD IS BRAZILIAN." DO YOU THINK SO?
ANSWER:* God must be Brazilian, but it is very unfortunate, because only poor people, suffering people need a God.
God is just opium. You can take the opium and forget your suffering your misery, your poverty. So, the more a country is poor, more it sill be addicted with God. It is the same proportion always. So the more a country is poor, the more it will be addicted to God. It is the same proportion always. More the country is happy, contented, comfortable, who bothers about God? For what?
Even in the ordinary life of a man, one remembers God only when he is in misery, suffering, trouble, sick, bankrupt. When everything is going great, nobody remembers God; there is no need. God is the need of the suffering, downtrodden.
So perhaps, if you say seventy percent of Brazilians are without food, without houses, then God must be a Brazilian.
God is the property of the poor, the hope of those who are living a hopeless life.
And they will continue to live in poverty until they get rid of this God. So tell the Brazilians he is a Brazilian, so it is our duty to finish him.
Once God is finished from the world, man need not suffer, for the simple reason, then we start functioning intelligently.
There is no need for poverty, there is no need for misery, there is no need for so much sickness. There is no need for man only to live seventy years. These are just because we have not tried intelligence in living. Wherever we have tried it, we have reached heights of immense dimensions.
Only as far as man is concerned, we are dependent on God.
It is only three hundred years since science came into being. It revolted against the world and all kinds of superstitions. And within three hundred years science has given man so much that in thirty thousand years, religions have not been able to provide. And this too, against the priests, against the politicians, science has contributed. If politicians and priests are not there, man can take a quantum leap.
There is no barrier between man and paradise. But the priest wants people to be poor, because only the poor need him. It is a simple business ideology. The politician wants people poor, because only the poor can be conditioned. They are illiterate, uneducated, and they are so much in suffering that any hope and they are ready to buy it. It may be God, it may be communism, it may be revolution -- something in the future, faraway. The poor are ready to buy it.
The politicians have been selling hope for thousands of years. The priests have been selling hope, and it is really strange that after such a long time they are still doing good business. And man seems to be fast asleep, without looking at the whole strategy.
The priests and the politicians have to disappear from the earth. Only then the new man -- rich, comfortable, skillful, creative -- can come into being.
So it is Brazilians' duty to kill God. He must be there.
It is the duty of the poor people of the world to kill God. The rich people would like him to survive. For the rich people God is a beautiful investment, because God creates a buffer between the rich and the poor. And because of that buffer the rich are protected. Remove the buffer and the rich and all their exploitation will be exposed. And then no priest can go on befooling the poor in the name of God, in the name of fate, in the name of the law of action, past lives. All kinds of things have been invented just to keep the poor poor, ready to be sucked by all kinds of parasites.
And the poor man has lived in poverty for so long that he has become accustomed to it. He accepts it as his life. He does not know what life is, so he cannot think that he is missing something. To miss something, first you have to have it.
And that's the function of my communes. In every country I want my communes to live as richly, abundantly, contented, joyously, without God, without heaven, without hell, without politicians, with out priests, and prove to the world that people can live without all this nonsense! And they are living far more beautifully than anybody else.
Nobody on the earth is singing a song of joy.
Nobody on the earth is in a state to dance.
We have to create these oases in the whole desert of the earth, so people at least can see the possibility. They can also be part of this ecstasy, this pilgrimage.
First, they will be hostile, because it hurts the ego to see that others have attained, and you have failed. So the first reaction is that the others are pretending. Their laughter is just a makeup. Their joy, their dance is just show-business.
But how long can you befool yourself by finding such explanations?
People cannot go on working for twelve hours, fourteen hours a day, and still be able to laugh, enjoy, dance, love. Sooner or later the outside people are bound to be attracted to our communes.
Our communes have to become finally, a kind of university where we teach -- not three r's, but three l's: love, life, laughter.
And there is no other hope for the poor. Revolution has failed.
In Russia, the politicians were giving them the hope that after the revolution everything will be paradise. Sixty years have passed, there is no sign of any paradise. Of course, one thing has happened: they have distributed poverty equally. And they don't allow Russian people to come in contact with the rich countries, for the simple fear that if they can see how richly, intensely and totally people are living, then this communism has failed. It could not make them rich, it has only made them all poor -- equally poor.
So equality has been achieved. The classes have not disappeared. Their names have changed. It was the bourgeois class and the proletariat -- the poor and the rich. Now it is the ordinary citizen and the member of the communist party.
The member of the communist party has more power than any rich man ever had, is using all luxuries for himself that any rich man ever had, is living comfortably with all technological devices at his hand. And it is only in Russia, that to become a member of the communist party is the most difficult. In any other country, you can just become the member if you want -- any moment. No qualifications, no conditions have to be fulfilled.
But in Russia, to become a member of the communist party is a long process, a long discipline -- far longer than a poor man has to travel to become rich. The distance between the hierarchy that is in power and the people is bigger in Russia than anywhere else, for the simple reason, that the middle class has completely disappeared and it has left a big gap.
In other societies, the society is divided, not only in two classes -- about that Marx is absolutely wrong. Society is divided into many steps. Those two may be the extreme steps -- the poorest and the richest, but there are in between both, many classes. So there is a link.
And the middle class is the biggest class, because on one hand it joins the poor, on the other hand it joins the superrich.
In Russia the middle class has disappeared, because the rich are no more there.
So the rich and the middle class both have been reduced to the proletariat.
Poverty is so equal that you don't feel hurt, you don't feel jealous. There is nothing to feel jealous of, everybody is just like you.
God has failed. Marx has failed. And I don't give any hope. Naturally I cannot fail. They were all giving hope, they could not fulfill the hopes. I am not giving you any hope. On the contrary, I am taking away all your hopes, all your future, so that you can live in this moment. Even if you have not much to live, still one can make this moment a paradise by small things.
And if the whole humanity is convinced that this is the only moment to live, the misers will disappear on their own accord -- because they are not living, they are accumulating for the future. The monks and the nuns will disappear, because they are not living in the moment; they are living for some heaven, some paradise somewhere.
So the basic thing today is, that God -- which is another name of hope, revolution -- which is a materialistic name for God... But they function exactly the same.
Their function is to keep people intoxicated.
My work is to wake people and stop taking all these opiums.
If people are just a little bit awakened, we can disperse all nations, all nuclear weapons, all atomic plants -- which are simply wasting energy. And the same energy can become creative and make people as rich as no Alexander the Great was ever rich.
The clothes that I am wearing, no emperor in the past could have used them.
And I am a poor man! It was simply impossible, because the technology was not there.
We can make the whole earth full of emperors living better than Ashoka, Akbara, Alexander, Napoleon -- in every possible way.
I don't see any problem, except the mind of the poor itself -- which is so conditioned that it still goes on believing in God, who has never answered any prayer, who goes on believing in paradise. If God was so compassionate, he would have given you paradise here. Why after death? Why not before death?
And the poor people have to see the fact that all the revolutions have failed. The French Revolution failed, the Russian Revolution failed, the Chinese Revolution failed. They were bound to fail, because the revolutionaries who were going to take over the power will become the power elite, and the society will be still divided.
And these power elites will be more dangerous than the rich people of the old.
For the simple reason, in countries like Russia and China, you cannot create another revolution, because the revolutionaries who have taken over the power know how it has been taken over, so they have prevented all possibilities. Even to talk about revolution is enough to be persecuted, killed, or exiled into Siberia.
Even if Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, or Lenin himself, were to be born into Russia, there is no possibility that their books would be published. Only government has the publication department. Anything that is published is published by the government, approved by the communist party.
And Marx would not have been allowed to sit in the British Museum the whole day doing nothing but reading and taking notes. His whole life he never did anything, except reading and writing. His writings are voluminous. But in Russia that is not possible. He will not be counted as a proletariat.
One of my friends was visiting Russia -- he is a Buddhist bhikku, a follower of Buddha, a monk.
He told me, "The first thing that was shocking to the Russians were my hands."
I said, "Your hands?"
He said, "Yes. Whenever I shook hands with them, they immediately shrank back. And they said, 'You must be a bourgeois. Your hands don't show that you have ever worked."'
I told the Buddhist monk, "You touch my hand. Then you will know that you are a proletariat and I am a bourgeois! That will give you great consolation."
Marx would not have been possible. No revolution in Russia is possible.
Everything has failed that man has done up to now, for the simple reason that man does not change his conditioning and goes on doing things with the same conditioned mind.
All that is needed is a simple deprogramming. Your mind should be cleaned from being a Brazilian, from being an American, from being an Indian, from being a communist, from being a socialist, from being a Christian, Jew, Hindu -- whatever the name of your limitations. All those limitations should be dropped, so you can become an unlimited being.
That is freedom, and that is true revolution, and it is an individual affair.
So take my message to Brazil, "please stop hoping, and start living! Out of your living there is hope. Out of your hoping there is only death and nothing else."
Q: BHAGWAN, TODAY, BRAZIL HAS THE SECOND HIGHEST RATE OF AIDS IN THE WORLD. DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO FIND A MEDICINE AGAINST AIDS? AND WHY ARE THE GAYS MORE SENSITIVE TO AIDS?
A:* First, the homosexuals have created the disease AIDS. It is a homosexual contribution to humanity. Then it can spread to heterosexuals, but the source of the disease is homosexuality.
Few things will have to be understood. One, homosexuality is not the way of nature, not the way of existence.
Existence always wants the opposite polarities to meet. Then only you can create a better generation. Homosexuality is uncreative, and homosexuality is between two men, two women. There is no polarity, there is no tension, no challenge.
First, people started becoming homosexuals in monasteries, soldier camps, school hostels, university hostels -- wherever man was separated from women. It was going to happen.
Biology knows nothing about your moralities. By the time a boy is fourteen, he is capable of giving birth to a child. The same is true about the girl. But in all the societies, this is the time when their sex is repressed, and this is also the time when their sex energy is at its climax -- between fourteen and twenty-one.
Nearabout eighteen you have your peak sexual energy, which you will never have again.
It seems all societies have conspired that man should not know the blissfulness of orgasmic experience. This was a beautiful way to divert: that he has to be
educated first, he has to go to the university. And by the time he is back from the university -- he may be twenty-six, twenty-seven, twenty-eight -- he is already on the decline. He has lost the time when he could have attained orgasmic experience. Now he can only experience ejaculation.
That proves to the religious people that it is sheer wastage of energy, you don't get anything. And after making love, a man feels frustrated, nothing comes out of it. He has lost the right timing. The society has diverted him.
If we want a more joyous world, the best thing will be that between fourteen and twenty-one, all girls and all boys are given birth control methods and total freedom to mix with many boys, with many girls, because you will never have this energy again. It is lost, then it is lost forever. Then you will have to wait for next life. That is why everybody is waiting for the next life, because they have missed something very essential in this life. They may not be aware of it. Perhaps they are not aware, but there is a wound inside. Something that could have blossomed in them has not blossomed. That's why there is so much despair.
And then all the religions are teaching celibacy. First, they prevent the best time to know the secrets and mysteries of sex, and then they impose the idea of celibacy, that it is very spiritual. It is simply against nature, against your biology.
The monks in the monasteries of all the religions, have been the first to find homosexuality. And the disease is basically homosexual, because nature never forgives. You have to follow the law.
If you put your hand into the fire, you are going to be burned.
Nature simply goes on its way. There is no question that you are a saint, so you will not be burned, you are a celibate so you will not be burned, only the sinners will be burned -- that is stupidity. Everybody is going to be burned who puts his hand into the fire.
The law of nature is impartial, accepts no exception. And anybody who goes against nature, sooner or later will have to suffer for it.
Homosexuality was the greatest crime against nature.
Few things to be understood before you can understand why AIDS evolved out of it.
In ancient China, it was a common practice if an emperor was getting old and his people did not want him to die, the method that was used to prolong his life was not a medicine. It was two beautiful young girls who will be lying on both of his sides in the night. And strange as it may seem, it has worked for thousands of years in China. Finding himself between two beautiful girls, he again becomes psychologically young. A great lust for life arises in him. He would like to be young again. Playing with those girls, there are moments when he forgets that he is old. And the life of emperors in China has been the longest of any emperor in the whole world. This was the medicine. @B003 I mention it so that I can explain what is happening to the homosexuals. Because they are both men, their energies don't have any tension, their energies don't
have any challenge, their energies by and by start losing the will to live. For what? There is no challenge. They start losing the desire to live.
They may not be conscious of it. Just as the Chinese emperors started feeling a tremendous desire to live more, perhaps forever-life is so beautiful it is not worth losing great lust arises in them. That lust gives you energy. That lust provokes all your stagnant forces into functioning.
You can see it happen to a man who suddenly falls in love with a woman and you meet him on the road. You met him yesterday, too, but you can see the difference. The man is looking radiant. His walk has a dance in it. He is whistling. And this man used to walk the street as if he were dragging himself against his will because he has to reach his home. But today he is not walking, but running. because he has to reach the home -- the woman will be waiting there.
Something that was dormant in him has become dynamic. The homosexuals slowly, slowly go on losing their desire to live. and that is the basic cause of the disease called AIDS.
It is not a disease. If it was a disease, there would be a possibility of finding medicine for it. This is the most strange thing about it -- it is not a disease.
Otherwise, it may take some time, but we will be able to find some medicine for it. But it is simply loss of the will to live. Now, what medicine can bring the will back?
The man really wants deep down to die. He has dropped all hopes to reach the bank. He is ready to be drowned any moment. He has given himself a life sentence. He has crucified himself.
Jesus only said everybody has to carry his cross on his own shoulders -- I wonder why he forgot that everybody has to crucify himself also. But people are doing that: carrying their cross on their shoulders, and then finally putting themselves on the cross.
Homosexuality has to disappear if we want AIDS to be prevented. All homosexuals have to be taught again that the woman is something significant to their life. Her warmth is something significant to keep them alive.
Now it is a well-established psychological fact that if a child is given every nourishment except the warmth of the body, blankets are given -- he is not kept in cold, he is warm; every food that is needed for his growth is given -- but there is no human touch anywhere. There is nobody to hug him, to hold him close to her chest, to her breasts where he can feel warmth, love.
They have tried with one child keeping scientifically perfectly healthy checking that nothing is going wrong, and another child is kept with the mother -- no check, nobody is bothered whether anything is going wrong or not. But the first child dies within three months. And this experiment has been first done on animals many times, and the same is the result: without the mother's warmth, the feminine warmth, the child perhaps never gets the will to live.
That is my explanation for the phenomenon. He never gets, in the very beginning, a desire to live. This is one side of the case which is now well established. Homosexuals cannot give to each other the warmth that they need.
They need a feminine warmth.
Two women cannot give to each other the same quality of energy and love that a man can give to them. But it has to be understood that AIDS is not created by lesbians.
That too is very strange. Homosexuals have created AIDS, not lesbians. The reason is clear: a woman is always a receiving center, and man is always an assertive energy. Two women can live together without disturbing each other's life for the simple reason that they are not assertive agents. They are completely closed and alone . They can be together, but they will not affect each other.
Two men are both assertive. So when homosexuals are making love, they not are giving energy to each other which is not needed at all -- they both need feminine energy, feminine warmth.
So lesbians have no part in contributing Aids. I am sorry to say that on that point they have not proved equal to men.
Homosexuality has to disappear from the world, and we can make it disappear, at least in our communes. It is just a question of understanding. And, because it is artificial, superficial, it can be easily removed.
And precautions should be taken against AIDS because it is already rampant.
This is not the beginning -- we are almost in the middle of it. The ind is not far away. It spreads like wildfire. And now they have come to find that even kissing can give it to you.
Looks as though medical people will not be able to find any medicine for it. We have to find a way, and we can find a way. My own understanding is that in our communes slowly, slowly homosexuality should disappear. About lesbians we can take care later on -- it may not be giving AIDS, but it is ugly, unnatural.
Perhaps someday it may bring something better than AIDS, nobody knows, because nobody knew about AIDS before and homosexuality has been in existence since religions have been in existence.
It took thousands of years to create the situation in which AIDS can happen. But to me it is not a disease -- it has nothing to do with medicine. Medicine and medical care can keep it from spreading, can keep the man who already has it, alive to the maximum -- that is two years... if he is completely isolated where no infection is possible.
That gives the clue to me: the AIDS patient loses all resistance power. His life energy has shrunk withinwards. The petals of his life energy are no more open -- they are closed, they are getting ready for the night. Hence, any infection can enter into his body.
Because his own will to live is not there, his body will not create the antibodies to prevent AIDS. In my communes I will suggest: First, try to help homosexuals turn into heterosexuals. Everybody in the commune should go to every possible
test, because we love each other so much that we would not like one of us to become the cause of the death of so many people. No sannyasin would like it.
And we are not going to condemn, because he is simply a victim -- victim of Jesus Christ, victim of Mahavira, victim of Buddha, and those big criminals are no more there. Otherwise, they should be shot immediately. Fortunately, they are dead.
So help them -- these are victims of thousands of years of homosexuality. Respect them. Be loving to them and compassionate. And then each commune has to create a corner for them where they can live. And my idea is that a male AIDS patient should live with a female AIDS patient.
Perhaps that may be the only medicine possible. I say perhaps because it has not been tried, and I am not a man of medicine. I am just crazy, and crazy ideas come to me. But when nothing is working, why not try a crazy man's idea?
All the sane people are saying there is nothing that can be done, so you are not going to lose anything except a madman's idea. My idea is that a woman and man -- both having AIDS so there is no question of giving AIDS to each other, or as much they can give, that is up to them, there is nothing more to it -- have come to the very end of the journey.
But my feeling is that the female energy and male energy meeting again may provoke the will to live. The warmth of a woman, the love of the man may postpone the date of their death.
And this can be done only in my commune with my people, because they all understand each other. They would like to help each other. Here we are going to start... soon. And perhaps that may prove the only cure. If it is out of homosexuality that the disease is born, then something out of heterosexuality will be the medicine.
This is my simple logic.
Q: BHAGWAN, YOUR SANNYASINS IN BRAZIL ARE TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN TO MAKE SOME BEAUTIFUL SPACE WHERE EVERYBODY COULD LIVE TOGETHER, AND IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY TO THEM?
A: It is difficult?
Q:YES. MY FEELING IS BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC SITUATION OF THE COUNTRY. IT IS DIFFICULT TO MAKE BUSINESS, TO MAKE A COMMUNE.
A: You talk with Sheela and Savita about that. Some way can be found, and a commune can be created. Start on a small scale and slowly it can grow. And few businesses you can do very easily. And we can send you sannyasins from outside, all around the world to help you. For example, you can start publications. In Brazil, many of my books are published, but they are published
by publishers. Somebody else is taking the profit out of them -- our sannyasins should publish them themselves. Just that will bring you good money.
There is no need to create huge palaces. Just workable houses, simple. For example, in India where poor people are in millions, in a village a beautiful hut can be made almost for nothing. This has been a tradition in Indian villages that whenever somebody is making a house, the whole village will help. And the houses are made with bamboos -- the bamboo functions as the wall -- cow dung mixed with mud is put on both sides of the bamboos, whitewashed it looks so clean, so beautiful. And just bamboos on the roof with mud tiles. For two hundred rupees, you can make a beautiful house. Two hundred rupees means, today, five dollars, or at the most ten dollars.
Between five to ten dollars, you can make a house. So when the situation is bad, then think of your local products-whether bamboo is available, other kinds of wood are available cheap -- and use that material. There is no need for marbles, and there is no need.... Yes, one day when you have money then have marble palaces, but meanwhile, till the palaces come, you need a certain kind of shelter that can be made very easily.
Not difficult -- you can create a commune of five hundred people with small cottages. And you can start businesses. For example, publication you can start with your own press, your own editors, your own designers. And you can make it an art -- hand binding, hand stitching.
And in fact you can sell in the market for a better price than book printed mass scale in a factory, because that will not have that beauty. And about other things you talk to Sheela and Savita. There is no problem which cannot be solved.
But Brazil needs a commune.
Q: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SOMETHING ABOUT THE THIRD WORLD WAR.
WE FEEL EACH DAY THE WAR COMING CLOSER AND CLOSER. IS THERE SOME POSSIBLE WAY TO PREVENT THE WAR?
A: The truth is that the nuclear war is never going to happen. Even when I say it is coming closer and closer, the reason to say it is not that the war is coming closer and closer, the reason is to awaken you somehow that the war is coming so close now there is no time to waste -- get up as quickly as possible before the war finishes you.
But the third world war is impossible for the simple reason that both the nations America and the Soviet Union are equally balanced with nuclear weapons. And if a war starts, the whole point of a war is to win, but in a nuclear war nobody wins. So war has lost its basic foundation. Why should you fight when both are going to be finished in it?
The possibility of one becoming victorious and the other being defeated is no more there. So I say with nuclear war, war has reached to such totality that it has committed suicide. Now war is not possible -- I mean nuclear war is not possible.
Just the other day I saw a petition of American scientists who had made the first nuclear war plant in America -- the pioneers of nuclear weapons. Fifty scientists have signed the petition to the president and to the Supreme Court that we are trembling with fear -- what we have done. And we have already so much nuclear weapons on both sides that they are enough to destroy all life from earth within ten minutes.
Those fifty scientists who have been making nuclear war possible have visualized the situation that is happening. The same is happening in Russia -- the scientists are becoming aware that what they are creating is a mass scale world- wide suicide.
It is so absurd and meaningless. Those fifty scientists have mentioned one thing which I have been telling again and again: that up to now all our efforts to find some antidote for the nuclear weapon has failed. And we don't think that we will be able to find something that destroys the power of nuclear weapons -- no counter energy is available.
It is because of this fact they have put the petition because now it is simply destruction -- there is no way of protecting anybody. I am tremendously happy that nuclear weapons have come to a point where fighting becomes useless, war becomes utterly stupid. And even if seeing this stupidity the politicians decide to go for a nuclear war, then I think this earth deserves it.
If its leaders are ready to destroy it, then perhaps it is good we finished. The universe will go on -- it has been going on before this earth was born, it will go on with the same beauty and with the same splendor. It doesn't matter that the earth is gone. There are 50,000 planets exactly like this earth in the universe where life exists.
So if the situation for life to exist on this earth disappears, the bodies will be dead here and your souls will be transplanted into other planets. They don't need missiles, they don't need rockets, they can simply jump a quantum leap from this planet.
But as far as I am concerned, I am totally convinced that war is impossible for the simple reason that that's why they have been postponing it. And they will go on postponing it -- they want to find something, either party -- whoever finds it first will immediately go for nuclear war because he can protect his country and you cannot protect your country. Then war again gains meaning -- somebody will be victorious and somebody will be defeated.
But I don't see there is any way to find an antidote. For the simple reason that 300 years of continuous creation of war mechanisms, destructive weapons, has led to the nuclear weapon. You have never worked for life, you have never thought about how to create more beautiful life-healthier, intelligent, lengthier. If side by side you were working for these 300 years, putting your whole energy as you have been putting into war, perhaps you may be able to find an antidote -- but there is not time enough.
If all the scientists of the world together start working now, perhaps in one hundred years they may be able to find a clue which nullifies all nuclear weapons. That seems to be impossible.
So to me the third world war is over. We have passed it -- now think about the fourth. And prepare for the fourth. Third is not possible.
And I am not a pacifist, and I don't want my sannyasins to be pacifists. A pacifist is against war; so much so that if he had nuclear weapons he will fight with nuclear weapons against war. A pacifist is not a peaceful man.
Our sannyasins are not pacifists, but peace loving, silence loving, trying to find their inner serenity. If we can create around the world millions of people who are centered in their meditation, who know who they are, who know the tremendous bliss that comes when you enter into your innermost core, that will create a energy blanket around the earth. That is the only possibility to prevent.
So directly I am not concerned with war. My concern is how to create more peaceful people, more loving people, more meditative people. Because if the balance for peace-loving people is more in the world, then any war can be prevented.
If there are millions of meditators in the world, nobody can force them to go war, to go destroy innocent people. In fact, these people who have attained some light within themselves will become a tremendous barrier -- not only against nuclear war -- but against any kind of war.
I am aware that nuclear war is impossible, and it is possible that the Soviet Union and America will come to a conclusion to drown all their nuclear weapons into the Pacific -- I don't know who gave it the name Pacific. Perhaps for this purpose -- and stop all traffic in the Pacific. Although it is five miles deep, there is always danger anything can trigger, and then it can become a chain explosion.
So for at least a decade, no traffic in the Pacific. Drown all the weapons there.
And my feeling is, soon Russia and America will come to that conclusion. But that does not mean war will not happen. Then old type of war -- first world war, second world war -- those type of wars will continue. Thinking of the third world war, they look like children's play. But they were immensely horrible.
So as far as I am concerned, third world war is out of the question. But still other wars will be there.
If we want to prevent all kinds of war in the world, then we have to spread the red people to the farthest corner everywhere, so that we have a commune of millions of young people who declare that they are the owners of the earth, and they refuse any kind of passport, any visa.
Movement is our birthright, and the whole earth is ours. If we have millions of people to destroy the boundaries of nations, the boundaries of religions, then there is nothing to fight for. Fight with whom?
So my direct effort is not to prevent war or to be a pacifist and print pamphlets against war and protest and put posters on the walls and scream and shout. All that nonsense is not going to prevent. They were doing the same thing before the
first world war. They were doing the same thing before the second world war.
They are doing the same thing before the third world war. They are just useless people. Good intentioned, but unintelligent.
My effort is to create a vast atmosphere of peace around the earth and that will be enough. War will become impossible.
In every country we will have thousands of sannyasins who will prevent that country itself, because they will say, "First kill us and then you can kill the neighboring country." They will be sitting on the boundary line meditating, "Kill us first." On both the sides. On the other sides also. Back to back.
And I don't think any politician has the courage to kill millions of his own people, because then the whole country will destroy the government and the politicians and everything. Because these children are not doing anything wrong, and they belong to the whole country.
So create peaceful people, and if time arrives, we will risk all our peace-loving people. And I don't think that any country can go to war.
It has never happened that the people of the same country are opposing its own government, that "War is not going to be our game anymore." And it is happening in both the countries. The enemy camp -- young people are ready there too: "Kill us first and then you can do whatsoever you want."
There are a thousand-and-one possibilities to change this world. But the basic need is to spread more and more sannyasins all over the world.
Already the red color is no more associated with communists. We have taken its possession already, copyright is ours now.
Even in Russia we have a beautiful group of sannyasins. Just the other day there was an article against me in a Russian magazine. They have been persecuting sannyasins. They have been taking their books away. The sannyasins have done nothing wrong -- no illegal thing, no crime -- so they cannot do anything to them.
In the article they have published the main prominent sannyasins' names, so that they can be recognized by the people anywhere, because they don't wear red clothes, they don't wear a mala. They are my underground sannyasins. They meet also in the basements of houses, so that they can meditate and nobody hears. They can listen to the tape, they can read a book.
And they are more excited than anywhere else, because for sixty years Russian youth has been missing something which is the very flavor of youth, something revolutionary, something rebellious. For sixty years, Soviet youth is the poorest youth in the world.
From their childhood they simply become adult. The youth -- that season -- never comes. Those days of dreaming of changing the whole world, of changing man, of creating a new humanity -- if they are not there, youth loses all its glamour, its splendor.
So they are immensely excited. And I know that communist countries will soon be having thousands of sannyasins -- without any question.
And nobody else can provide communist countries anything that I am offering to them.
They have been taught there is no God. I say, "Perfectly good, there is no God."
They have been told there is no hell, no heaven. Perfectly true.
They have been told not to believe -- that's my whole teaching.
Only on one point... I am giving them something new -- that is meditation. And Marx or Lenin or Stalin, nobody has said that meditation is against communism.
Just sitting silently, doing nothing... How can it be against communism? Or against anybody?
So my sannyasins need not be afraid in communist countries either, because my teaching agrees with Marx on every point, except meditation. But that is the whole secret: that meditation will destroy all those communist ideas, those Marxian concepts. And about meditation, there is not a single word against it in the whole communist literature, because they have never even heard about it.
Marx knew nothing about it.
So try to spread meditation far and wide, and find out whatever is possible in your situation. The country is poor, then manage something. But communes have to exist. And once a commune is there, soon you will be able to produce many things, create many things.
And the commune is not going to remain poor long. And it will become a prototype for other people, "If we can create and we can live comfortably and we are not starving, and we are rejoicing, why can't you just do the same as we are doing."
The Last Testament, Vol 1