Chapter 13

[NOTE: This is a typed tape transcript and has not been edited or published, as of August 1992. It is for reference use only.]

Existence has no limits. There is no point which is the full point. Wherever you are, there is still much more to happen to you. The way is endless. There is no goal and this is the beauty of live, because if there was an end, a goal, that would mean nothing but death. Live is an ongoing affair. It goes on flowering from eternity to eternity.

Enlightenment is a tremendous experience, so vast, so mysterious, so blissful that people who have achieved it, have stopped there. They have thought that the whole has arrived. I am basically a homeless wanderer. In the beginning I was also thinking, but the experience is so beautiful that there cannot be anything more beautiful than this. The experience is so ecstatic, that it is incomprehensible even to think, to imagine that there can be more.

But this is the mystery of live. There is always more. Just out of curiosity, I started looking beyond enlightenment. And I was surprised that enlightenment is only a beginning, not the end. Beginning of a journey of light which goes on expanding, goes on becoming more and more juicy -- Rasso Viser.

The Upanishads have called the ultimate experience that it is very juicy. I am a milestone in the history of man's growth and consciousness. That's what I mean when I say, "Enlightenment has been left far behind. I have gone beyond it." And the beyond has no limits. It is just like the horizon that surrounds you. As you come closer to it, it moves further back. You never reach, you are always arriving, but you never arrive.

This is the meaning of live. Just think that if there was an end to your search what would be left? What you will do then? Even enlightenment will become a boredom. Even blissfulness twenty- four hours every day, every month, every year, every life, for ever and ever will start collecting dust on it. It will loose the initial glamour, the initial youth, the initial benediction.

But up to now, nobody has said, that there is anything beyond enlightenment.

That's why I say, I am a milestone. With me, a new chapter in the history of consciousness begins. Enlightenment will be now the beginning, not the end.

Beginning of a non-ending process in all dimensions of richness.

BELOVED BHAGWAN, IN ONE OF YOUR LATEST LETTERS TO THE THERAPISTS HASYA SAID THAT YOU ABANDONED THE OUTER SANNYAS IN FAVOR OF THE INNER SANNYAS. WOULD YOU PLEASE SAY MORE ABOUT IT?

I have been working hard to abandon everything that is outer, so that only the inner remains for you to explode.

Otherwise the man's mind is a very immature mind. It starts clinging with outer symbols. That has happened to all the religions of the world. They all started well, but they all went astray. And the reason was that the outer was emphasized so much that people completely forgot the inner. To fulfill the outer was such life-absorbing task that there was no space left even to remember about your inward journey which is basically the meaning of religiousness.

If you watch the so-called saints, sages, mahatmas, their life, you will be surprised. They are more outworldly than you are.

Once I was traveling with a very famous Hindu monk. It was hilarious to see that his whole life, twenty-four hours, was engaged into non-essential things. For example, he will not eat anything, he will only drink the milk of a cow. And people worshiped him just for that which is not an achievement.

Every child of every animal is borne doing that. And the milk has not to be of any other animal except cows. The milk of the buffaloes was not acceptable. In fact, it is richer. It has more vitality.

But the Hindu tradition has never called the buffalo even auntie. And the cow has to be of absolutely white color. I was surprised that this is something strange.

Any other color, particularly black, even patches of black on the white cow was not acceptable to the saint. He would rather fast than compromise, so his followers were always carrying four, five white, absolutely white cows, wherever he was going. Because it is very difficult to find a completely purely white cow.

I asked him, "What is the matter? What is wrong with a brown cow, or with a black cow? Or with a cow with many patches of different colors?"

He said, "Whiteness is the symbol of saintliness."

I said, "My God! The cow has to be saintly for you and even the blackest cow will give the whitest milk. You should look at the milk not at the cow. Who is telling you to drink black milk?

And he was so much suspicious about people and in this country particularly about milk you cannot be certain. You cannot be certain about anything. Even about medicines you cannot be certain on which your life depends. And the doctor may be simply giving you injections of just colored water.

Thousands of people have died because there is so much deception in everything. The label is right, but you cannot decide what is inside. And about milk everybody knows people are mixing it with water.

When I was a student, the man who used to bring the milk for the students in the hostel, everybody was asking him, "Do you mix water?"

And he said, "But I can take any oath. And his son used to carry the bucket of milk with him and he will put his hand on his son's head and say, "This is my son. And I take the oath that I have never mixed in my life water into milk."

One day I called him inside my room. I closed the room. He said, "What are you doing?"

I said, "Just a little privacy." And I asked him that "I cannot believe that the milk that I get is not mixed with water. How do you manage even to take an oath?"

He said, "It is very simple. But don't tell to anybody. I never mix water into milk.

I always mix milk into water. It is a simple thing. I can take the oath, because I have never done that. I always mix the milk into water. For that nobody is asking."

This Hindu monk was so suspicious that the cow had to be milked in front of him.

I said, "What kind of religious progress, what kind of consciousness you are attaining by all these stupidities? Five cows have to be carried with you. Then you have two stand there when they are being milked. As if your whole spirituality depends on this stupidity."

This was just an instance. Twenty-four hours this was his way. No woman could come closer than nine feet. His disciples were continuously measuring the distance between the woman who had come to see the saint. It has to be exactly nine feet.

I said, "What is this nonsense?"

He said, "You don't understand. A women has a magnetic force but its radius is only nine feet."

I said, "From where you got this idea?"

He said, "My master. He got this from his own master. It is given in secrecy whispered from ear to ear, from generation to generation."

I said, "Strange, can you support it by any scripture?"

He said, "No, it is a private tradition. Scriptures are public. My master cannot deceive me."

Naturally his master cannot deceive him. And nobody knows who was the idiot who started the idea. Whenever he will go any place, first he will enquire `Has there been any woman?'

He could not sit at a place where a woman was sitting until nine minutes have passed. The same radius. Nine feet it goes, in a space nine minutes it goes in time. After nine minutes he can sit, but not before that.

I said, "You are living a life of phobia. This is not saintliness. You are living in constant fear. Your whole life, day and night, is nothing but fear.

And you have become so much focused on outer things which are meaningless that I don't see you have any time for the inner." All the religions have become focused on the outer. I am trying to abandon everything that is outer. My people have no outer discipline. They have no outer obsession.

Their whole effort and energy has to be directed inwards. Life is small and time is so precious. You cannot waste it into unnecessary things. And you can see people all around wasting it in unnecessary things.

One shankaracharya was staying in Delhi and a poor man, a clerk stood up in the question hour and asked about the ultimate, what it is, how to attain it.

And the shankaracharya looked at him. He was using the ordinary desk, a full pant, a bush shirt, and he became furious. The shankaracharya said, "You have some nerve to ask about the ultimate. And you are wearing a full pant. First answer me. Have you got the yoga pavid*, the Hindu thread inside your bush shirt?. And when you urinate, do you urinate standing or sitting?"

And all the idiots who had gathered there and I don't think anybody else goes there. They laughed, the poor man said, "In a full pant it is very difficult to sit and all the urinoirs are made in the offices so that you can urinate standing."

He said, "This is against Hindu religion. Have you ever heard any seers of the Vedas, urinating standing? And what about the thread? Do you put it on your ear?"

He said, "In fact, I don't have any thread." He said, "This is too much. You are go to suffer in hell fire, because while urinating, if you don't put the thread on your ear, then you are vulnerable to all kinds of evil influences. That is the moment when devil enters into people."

This comes from a shankaracharya who is supposed to be the head of the Hindu religion. As if religion's concern is urinals, thread and protecting people from evil. And Hindus have been doing that, but I don't think that they are protected from evil in any way. They are just as human as people are anywhere else.

I want my people to understand it clearly. Neither your clothes, nor your outer disciplines nor anything that has been given to you by tradition and you have accepted it just on belief, is going to help. The only thing that can create a revolution in you is going beyond the mind into the world of consciousness.

Except that, nothing is religious. But to begin with and with a world which is too much obsessed with outer things, I had to start sannyas also with outer things.

Change your cloths into orange, wear a Mala, meditate, but the emphasis was only on meditation.

But I found that people can change their clothes very easily but they cannot change their minds. They can wear the Mala, but they cannot move into their consciousness. And because they are in orange cloths, wearing a Mala, having a new name, they start believing that they have become a sannyasin.

Sannyas is not so cheap. Hence it is time and you are mature enough that beginning phase is over. If you like the orange color, the red color, perfectly good -- it cannot do any harm, but it is not a help either. If you love the Mala, if you love the locket with my picture on it, it is simply your ornament, but it has nothing to do with religion. So now I reduce religion to its absolute essentiality.

And that is meditation. If you are meditating and if you are reaching higher and higher into your consciousness, thoughts are left far behind. You experience that your body is just outside you, your mind is just outside you and you are standing in the middle, the center of the cyclone, in utter silence, in absolute beauty, in great light, in utter fulfillment. Except the process of meditation, everything is non- essential.

I don't want my people to be lost into non- essentials. In the beginning it was necessary. Now years of listening to me, understanding me, you are in a position to be freed from all outer bondage. And you can for the first time be really a sannyasin only if you are moving inwards.

BELOVED BHAGWAN, WHAT IS THE FUNCTION AND THE IMPORTANCE OF ALL HEAD- QUARTERS FOR YOU IN EUROPE? AND HOW WILL IT IMPART YOUR SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE? DOESN'T IT IMPLY ORGANIZATION AND STRUCTURE AGAIN?

The world head-quarters has nothing to do with organization, structure. In fact, to avoid organizations and structures, the world head-quarters is being created. I receive thousands of letters, it is impossible for me to answer them all. It is even impossible for me even to read them all. And I will be a wandering mystic onwards, because no country has the courage to let me settle there, even my own country where I was born wants me to fulfill certain conditions.

I have never fulfilled conditions imposed upon me by anyone. So for me the only course remains to wander around the earth. And in a way perhaps this is what existence wants me. Because in this way, I will be able to reach more people than in any other way. In this way I will be available to almost every sannyasin around the world than in any other way.

They all cannot come to me, they have their financial difficulties, but those are not important. There are governments all over the world, every government even if I ask for a three week tourist visa, asks me, "Are you going to make a commune here?"

I say, "I had a great respect for human beings always, but listening to your questions, I feel that I was wrong. In three weeks tourist visa, how a commune can be created? I will be meeting my sannyasins and few countries are so much afraid, that even before I have applied for a tourist visa, their parliaments have decided that I should not be allowed in the country, because I am a dangerous man. About that they are right. But even for a dangerous man you cannot prevent a tourist visa, unless he commits a crime against your constitution, against your law. I have never been in the country, how I can commit any crime against that country's law, its order, its constitution. Let me give me a chance. I will try my best, but first let me have a chance. I have not even heard the names of countries before, who have decided that I will not be allowed in their country.

I heard only because they decided, their parliament decided that I should not be allowed. And it seems to be a world conspiracy, because the same reasoning is been given in every parliament that the man is dangerous that the man is extremely intelligent that the man can destroy your youth, its morality. He can corrupt people by his ideas, destroy the tradition, the religion, he can create a disorder.

I was simply amazed, I had never thought that religions and moralities and churches which have been two-thousand, three-thousand, four-thousand, five- thousand years old, can be destroyed in a three week time? They have given me a clue. Now I know where they stand. Their fear has exposed them.

But it doesn't matter. If one country stops me, I enter another country nearby and my sannyasins can come to meet me there.

But now this is going to be my way of work that rather sannyasins coming to me, I will be going to them and knocking on their doors. Perhaps few other neighbors may also wake up.

The world head quarters has nothing to do with any organization. It is simply my secretariat. That's why I have given it a name `Rajneesh Foundation International - world headquarters of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh'.

It has nothing to do with anybody else. It is my personal secretariat where all the correspondence from the world can reach, from where people can find where am I, in which country's jail. Otherwise millions of sannyasins around the world were in a difficulty, they could not keep track of me. America was changing jails every two day, just, sometimes even one night I was in one jail and the next day I was in another jail. I said, "Your jails are all alike. Why you are unnecessarily taking this trouble?"

The reason was that nobody should know where I am. But they could not manage, because from the airport, the news media was present. Every jail was surrounded by news media twenty-four hours. Any time they take me out, the news media is there. They take me in, the news media is there. And the American news media is the most efficient in the world. Within seconds the whole country will know where I am.

The world headquarters will be publishing my books, will be releasing my tapes, videotapes, will be doing every kind of work. But it has no domination over anybody. All communes of the world are independent. All centers of the world are absolutely free. They are under nobody's guidance. My sannyasins are directly related to me. The world head-quarters will simply function so that you can have a connection with me. Otherwise you don't have any place to whom to ask where I am, what is happening to me. The world head-quarters is not in any way a power over any sannyasin, over any other sannyas centers, ashramas, communes. It has nothing to do that. It is my secretariat. And its function is to convey to me messages of importance and to convey to the sannyasins my messages of any importance to anybody. It is not an organization. It is not a structure. It is simply a functional office.

BELOVED BHAGWAN, HOW CAN WE IN THE RAJNEESH TIMES SPREAD YOUR VISION IF WE PERSONALLY ARE OFTEN SO INSECURE ABOUT WHAT YOUR VISION ACTUALLY IS?

I can understand the difficulty. It is not only your difficulty, it is the difficulty of every sannyasin everywhere. The moment somebody asks you "What is the vision of your master? What he wants to do? What are the disciplines that he has given to you?" And you are in a difficulty. Because I have not given any disciplines to you. And they are accustomed of the old religions, Christians have their own catechism, just a small booklet in which all that is essential to Christianity is written.

You can just look at within few minutes and you know what Christianity is. Jews have ten commandments, Jainas have their five principles and in the same way all the religions, their belief in a God, their belief in a heaven in a hell, their belief what is good and what is bad, their certainty about what is sin and what is virtue and their clear declaration that those who are virtuous will be rewarded in heaven and those who are sinners will be thrown in the darkness of the hell for eternity to suffer.

Things are simple for these people. And naturally everybody knows about all these religions. They ask you the same question. But they don't know that I am not preaching a religion.

The first thing to be made clear to them is that what I am teaching is a religiousness, a quality. Religion is a dead dogma, fixed principles. Frozen fossils. What I am teaching to you is a living, flowing religiousness -- an experience like love. An experience that is individual, all the religions are collective. They belong to the crowd. And my whole effort is to make you free from the crowd and from the collective so that you can be yourself, so that you can blossom to your own potentiality, to your individuality. I am an individualist.

My vision about man is that he needs no organization. He needs freedom from all organizations. All organizations cripple him, blind him, destroy him. The life of the organization is the death of the individual. Because the organization demands obedience. It is not a question of right and wrong. It is a question that you should obey whatever is written in the scriptures, whatever is ancient, whatever has been always followed. You should not question.

My state is just the opposite. You should question everything. It is your life. And unless you question, you cannot get rid of garbage and crap. All the religions ask you to believe. My vision is that the greatest crime against yourself is believing, because believing means: you don't know yet you start feeling as if you know.

I am all for knowing and I am absolutely against for belief. Because belief prevents people from knowing. When you already believe, your enquiry stops.

There is no need. Gautam Buddha has known, that's enough. What more you can do. Just believe in him, worship him. But remember one thing: when you are thirsty, then you never think that Gautam Buddha has drunk water enough.

There is no need for you to drink.

Even to say that you are thirsty is a sin. When you are hungry, you are hungry and you need food. Gautam Buddha may have eaten -- eighty years he lived -- that does not make any difference to your hunger. If on the physical level it is not possible, how it is possible on the spiritual level? Buddha may have known that can not make you enlightened. You will have to know yourself.

Each individual has to travel the path. Nobody else can travel the path on your behalf. The old religions have made things very simple. But by making them simple, they have destroyed so much that the whole humanity lives in misery because of it. What is good today, may not be good tomorrow. What is good to me, may not be good to you.

Each individual has to be conscious, alert, watchful, an experiment with life. And find out what is good for him. Whatever gives you peace, whatever makes you blissful, whatever gives you serenity, whatever brings you closer to existence and its immense harmony, is good. I cannot point out to you `this is good' and `this is wrong'.

And whatever creates conflict in you, misery in you, pain in you, is wrong.

Nobody else can decide it for you, because every individual has his own world, his own sensitivity. He is unique. So that formulas are not going to work, they have not worked. The whole world is a proof of it.

Never ask anybody what is right and what is wrong. Life is an experiment to find out what is right, what is wrong. Sometimes you may commit what is wrong, but that will give you the experience of it, that will make you aware of it that is has to be avoided. Sometimes you may do something good and immensely you will be benefited. The rewards are not beyond life, in heaven and hell. They are here and now.

Each action brings its result immediately. Just be alert and watch. I call the man mature who has watched and found himself what is right, what is wrong, what is good, what is bad. And by finding it by himself, he has a tremendous authority. He knows it absolutely. The whole world may say something else, it makes no difference to him. The whole world may be against him -- it is not a question of voting. He has his experience and that is decisive. One thing.

Second thing: the man who has found maturity by his own experiments -- and life gives you so many opportunities, every moment they are available. Don't miss any opportunity. Good or bad, don't decide beforehand. Go through the experience and let the decision come afterwards. Let the experience be your conclusion. This will help you to know one thing more that `don't interfere with others'. This will give you the insight that `help others to be themselves'. Tell them to experiment, tell them it is not wrong to commit mistakes. Because every mistake is a part of learning.

But man for thousands years have been fed up- - from his very childhood, what is right, what is wrong, what is good, what is bad. So naturally he ask my sannyasins, too. That "What is the vision of your master?"

Tell them that, "My master is not an imprisonment to me. He is a freedom to me.

He has not given me details of things. He has simply given me methods how to find details myself. He has not shown me the way. He has given me eyes so that I can find my way."

And each individual's way is going to be different. Never follow anybody. That is the greatest calamity that can happen to a man. Once you start following somebody else, you become a carbon copy. You become an imitation. You loose originality. So whoever asks you, "What vision your master has given to you?", tell them that he has given freedom to us. And he has provoked and challenged us to find our original face.

And that is possible only if you do not imitate.

BELOVED BHAGWAN, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ESOTERICS AND ESOTERIC NONSENSE?

Whatever I have been telling to you, is esoterics. I am trying to make you mystics, masters of your own, helping you to find the mystery of life without giving you any map, without giving you any guide-book. Because that spoils the whole game.

It is like you see a beautiful film. And you start telling the story to the friend.

And you love the friend. And you have brought tickets for the friend for tomorrow.

That's a good gesture. But please don't tell the story. Otherwise that friend will be simply bored in the film -- the same beautiful film will become just a boring experience. Because he will already what is going to happen. There will be no curiosity, there will be no possibility of anything new to happen.

He already knows. I have heard when for the first time films started in India in a small village, there were three shows: the matinee show. And one old man watched it. Then the show was finished but he won't move. He said, "I want the ticket for the first show." The manager said, "But you have seen." He said, "You wait, you don't interfere. This is none your business. This is the money. Give me the ticket. I will see the first show also." After first show he said, "Now I want to see the second show also."

The manager said, "You seem to be a strange fellow. You are seeing the same story again and again. And you don't seem to be bored."

He said, "You will not be satisfied unless I answer you. There is a scene in the film. A beautiful woman by the side of a lake is undressing. She has almost undressed and at that very moment, a train passes by." The old fellow tries every way to see to the other side, but the woman is other side and by the time the train has passed, the woman is swimming in the lake and he could not see her undressed completely. He said, "I will not leave this place, because I know these Indian trains sometimes go late. How long this train is going to be in time?"

Don't tell the story. Tickets are good. I give you every incentive, every challenge to go on the journey. But I don't tell you what you are going to meet what is going to happen on the journey. That will spoil the whole mystery of it. Esoterics is the science of challenging people that life is not appears. It is much more. It is always much more. You will never come to a place where you can say, "Now it is enough." It is never enough. What I call esoteric nonsense, is those people who start giving you charts, maps, guides -- start in detail telling you every phase of your journey. They kill, even the desire to go on the path.

I was in Agra. There is a small religion called Radhaswamis. You can see in Radhaswamis how religions had been fighting egoistically with each other. For two hundred yeas, Radhaswamis have been making a temple in the memory of their guru, but the idea is to make a temple which defeats Taj Mahal, because both are in Agra. Two hundred years continuously, only the ground floor is ready. Only the pillars. They have done tremendous job, and if they succeed, there are very remote possibilities to complete it; because two hundred years they have already worked. They are pouring all their money, from all over the country, wherever their followers are. But whatever they have made gives an indication that if they succeed, Taj Mahal will become secondary.

When I was in Agra, speaking they invited me to see their incomplete temple.

They are in a very great despair because money is running out, no more sources.

There is not even a roof. But even on the pillars, the work that they have done -- perhaps marble has never found such great artists. When I was looking at their temple, I came across a map that was hanging on the wall. I said, "What is that? I have never seen such a map." They said, "This is the map of the higher stages of consciousness." There are sixteen stages, and on the map, on the fifth stage -- Mohammed, Moses, people like that, names are written, somewhat higher. On the seventh stage Nanak, Kabir, Dadu and others. Somewhat still higher, on the tenth, Krishna, Ram. Still higher on the eleventh, Gautam Buddha, Mahavira. On the sixteenth, only their guru, their master, has reached. They said, "What do you say?" I said, "Absolutely right. Your guru is on the sixteenth." They said, "You are the first man who do not belong to our religion, who are so absolutely certain." I said, "I have to be absolutely certain because I am on the seventeenth, and I see your poor guru on the sixteenth. he tries to get on on the seventeenth and I go on pushing him down. Seventeenth is the last, and I am not going to allow anybody else there. I don't like anybody. I want to live alone, peacefully, your guru has to remain on sixteenth. He can go downwards, fifteenth, fourteenth -- which are vacant, there is nobody."

They were shocked. They said, "Are you serious?" I said, "I'm always serious, and I have to be serious, because your guru is trying every possible way somehow to enter in the seventeenth. And I have to make all arrangements to block his path.

In fact I have removed the staircase also. There is no hope for your guru to enter in the seventeenth." They said, "This is strange. But we have never heard about the seventeenth." I said, "Who had heard about the sixteenth?"

This is esoteric nonsense. Esoterics is a mystic phenomenon. Esoteric nonsense is expressed in such things. You will not believe that in Jaina temples there used to be maps. I don't know whether there are still or not, because I have not entered a Jaina temple for twenty years. It is not right to say I have not entered -- they will not let me in!

Krishna is in the seventh hell... because Jainas believe in seven hells. It is a very mathematical idea -- to put all the sinners in one hell, seems to be very unmathematical. Somebody has been only smoking cigarettes and has done nothing wrong to anybody, except to himself. And somebody has killed, like Adolf Hitler, six million people. Now to put them into one place, seems to be absolutely unjustified. So Jainas have seven hells -- seven categories, according to your sin, crime, you will be sent. Krishna is in the seventh, the last, because he was the man who provoked Arjuna for Mahabharata, the great Indian war, in which millions of people died. The whole responsibility goes on him -- and because to Jainas nonviolence is the criterion of religion -- he was the most important person to preach violence.

When Mahavira was alive, one of his disciples hoped that he will become the successor of Mahavira. But seeing that Mahavira goes on living, he became frustrated. He propped Mahavira and moved away from Mahavira taking his five hundred disciples with him, because he said this man does not know enough. He says there are only seven hells -- that is wrong. There are seventy- seven hells. Because it is impossible to categorize all crimes and all sins into seven categories -- seventy-seven hells. Now you cannot prove these people; not disprove these people. It is just their imagination.

Hearing this, another man, whom I like -- Sanjay Belattiputta -- he said, "This man is an idiot! It is better than seven, but really there are seven hundred hells."

He was joking, he was not serious, but he was simply saying, that all these things are simply nonsense. In the name of religion you can go on propagating any kind of nonsense.

I have heard that -- At last Morarji Desai died. I don't know whether he has died or not. It is just hearsay. And everyone who dies is first brought into hell, and hell has such a beautiful reception room -- beautiful naked ladies, champagne flowing, all kinds of cold drinks, every kind of food... you say and it is immediately presented by naked women. Morarji said, "This is strange... this is hell? What great pleasures must not be happening in heaven? But this is the root.

Hell comes first, then the bus goes to heaven. And he was very much puzzled again. Heaven looked like a ruin -- old skeletons walking; you cannot even recognize who is who, saints, mahatmas, sages, but there is no greenery, no reception place. He said, "This is not a place worth living. Hell was far better.

Improved in every way, everything is available. No sign of poverty. He said to the bus driver that, "Please when you go back, I want to go back to hell." He said, "Think twice before you decide." He said, "I have decided." He went to hell and a he entered, the devil caught hold of him and said, "So you have come." But he said, "Where is the reception place?" The devil said, "You are an idiot. That was just a reception place. That is to allure idiots for hell. Now you will see the reality."

The bus has gone. There was no way. He said, "Still, because you have come by yourself -- you have chosen it yourself, I will give you again a choice." He took him to the first room. It was so horrible. People were being cut by electric saws and again joined for another cut. It was so painful. Everybody was naked, and one can see that how many cuts a man has gone through. You could count the scars. And they had really invented a glue that you cut the body in two, glue it, put it back, and sometimes those small devils who were doing all this work, they will put two persons' bodies and changes the head of one, the body of another. It was looking very ugly. Everybody was in torture. The devil asked, "Would you like to join this group? It is a group therapy." Morarji said, "No. I would like to see the other two."

In the second one, it was even more horrible. There was no electric saws -- people were being cut by old type of axes, like trees are cut. Somebody's leg will be cut and joined to somebody else's leg. Somebody's head will be cut and will be joined to somebody else's head. Morarji said, "What is this?" He said, "This is old type. There are people who like old things, ancient, traditional. Few people like technology, science. For them the first room. This is for the more religious, more traditional, those who go on spinning reels. Perhaps this may suit you. He said, `No, this is too much. I would like to see the third one." And the third one looked a relief. A great relief! Seeing the two, the third was certainly a relief. People were standing into crap of all kinds -- up to their neck. Somebody drinking tea, somebody drinking coffee. It was stinking, but Morarji said, "It is better." And as far as crap is concerned, fifty percent he has prepared already. Whole life drinking of urine, now, he does not smell anything. But it is good that you are provided with coffee and tea. So he said, "This is good. Although it does not look good to stand into this mess that you have collected here. How old it is?" He said, "This is the ancientmost thing. We are great collectors. Antiques we pay very much interest. Nothing is new here. Thousands of years old things. This shit that you are seeing all around. This comes from the days of Vedas. It is sacred.

Go into it and enjoy. What do you want, a coffee?" He said, "I don't like coffee or tea. I drink my own urine." Devil said, "That's perfectly okay. That freedom is given to you. You can drink as much as you want."

An empty cup was given to him to drink his own urine. Just in the middle when he was drinking his urine, a bell started ringing and a small devil shouting that the coffee break is over. Now throw all your cups and coffees and stand on your head. Now begins the yoga exercises.

This was not known to him that this was going to be. It was already too much, and now standing on your head. But you cannot do only this. Three places are there and you have chosen itself.

All religions have ideas about heaven, about hell. This is all esoteric nonsense.

Real esoterics simply means the science of knowing thyself.

Okay?