Chapter 05

[NOTE: This is a typed tape transcript and has not been edited or published, as of August 1992. It is for reference use only.]

INTERVIEW BY MA PREM SUNSHINE

A: There are difficulties but there are not impossibilities. The commune can succeed, but it is one of the greatest challenge man has ever faced. Against all religions, against all societies, against all nations, and just few intelligent people have to make it a success.

But the situation is such that even though the forces against are very big, the situation is not in their favor. Our forces are very small but the situation is in our favor. And in reality everything is determined by situations, not by superficial forces.

For example, all the old religions, although they have the majority population of the world behind them, but no one really is authentically with them. The Christian calls himself the Christian, goes to the church, reads the Bible, but has no inner conviction. Deep down there is simply doubt, because his doubt has never been removed. His doubt has only been repressed.

And the more you repress the doubt the deeper it goes into your being and more powerful it becomes. Its depth is its power.

So all the religions have so many millions of people with them, but not a single authentic individual who can say that, "This is not my faith but my experience."

I have asked the question to very significant people. There was one very well read, well respected, world-famous Christian theologian, Stanley Jones. He was continuously touring around the world. He used to come to India too. And once in a world religions conference we met.

He spoke very beautifully, a well prepared speech. As he sat down by my side I asked him, "Why did you prepare the speech?"

He felt a little uneasy, because we were not even introduced. And he asked, "How you came to know that I have prepared it?"

I said, "It was clear. It was exactly the way it is taught in the Christian theological colleges. The beginning should be sensational so it attracts everybody's attention, and then whatever you want to convey, convey it very clearly because people are ready to listen. You have created the excitement. And always end at a peak. And always end it abruptly, as if something more was there and it has not been said.

This is how they teach in the theological college, and this is how your speech was. I can say with absolute guarantee it was prepared, each single word, each gesture. When your sounds should be louder and when it should become just a whisper, all that was according to the science of oratory. And it was well prepared, without any flaw, but it was only a speech. It is not your conviction.

"Because the conviction needs no preparation. The conviction is spontaneous.

The conviction finds itself, its gestures, its voice. The conviction knows where to begin, where to end, without any training. It is innocent, innocent of training. It was your belief.

"Now I am going to speak. Listen to me. And this is not my belief, this is my experience. And don't escape. After I have finished I have to meet you again."

He was a little puzzled. He was a old man and he had never come across such a person. It was a kind of intrusion. I spoke. I came back to him and I asked him, "Can you say this was prepared?"

He said, "No. It has all the beauty of unprepared rawness, the uncut, unpolished diamond. And you are right. I have been thinking all along while you were speaking that although I have cut my stone, polished it, prepared it, but it was not a diamond. The polishing was perfect, the cutting was perfect, the presentation was perfect, but what I was presenting was not a diamond. I can see the difference. I was speaking out of my faith. I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in the Holy Bible, but certainly I have not experienced anything."

I said, "At least you are a sincere man. Religious people are not supposed to be."

We became friends. Many times he became my guest. Whenever he passed my town he always stayed with me. His Christian followers were at a loss that why he stays with me.

I always drove him to the church but I always remained in the car waiting for him. His followers asked me that, "He stays with you, he loves you, respects you.

You don't show even this much respect. You can come in the church. Anyway you are sitting outside in the car. You can listen him."

I said, "That will be disrespectful to him. He knows why I am not coming in.

Unless he says something out of his own experience, I will not come in. The day I come in will be his day of graduation."

He died without a certificate.

The same has happened with Hindu saints, Jaina saints, Buddhist saints. Even the saints of these religions have no experience. It is all borrowed. Hence it is just a burden. They are carrying it out of sheer habit, respectability, sociality.

So although millions of people are behind these religions, my few sannyasins are far more stronger. They have tasted something, lived with someone who has arrived, have been in love with someone who can take them to the utmost peak of existence.

So their numbers may be small, but numbers don't count. I count the hearts.

You must have noticed it, that manual workers are called hands: how many hands are working? Intellectual workers are called heads: head of the department, head clerk, headmaster. But heart is nowhere mentioned.

I count hearts, because the real strength is neither in the hands nor in the head.

The real strength is in the heart, in your love. And love can do miracles.

There are difficulties but for my sannyasins those difficulties are challenges. We will not accept them as difficulties but as new explorations, new struggles, new challenges, new doors to be opened, new heights to be reached. The same stone on the road can be thought as blocking the way, can be understood as a stepping- stone.

And we are going to make every stone a stepping-stone.

And, as I said, the situation is in our favor because all religions are bogus. They don't have the support of existence with them. They are dead.

All political ideologies have failed, utterly failed. No political revolution has been successful. And the politicians of the world has brought humanity to the verge of a global suicide. Politics has contributed to humanity the possibility to commit total suicide. That is their contribution of thousands of years.

Religions have contributed AIDS. That is their only contribution. They created all kinds of perversions. It was in the monasteries that homosexuality was born. So all the religions are responsible for AIDS and it is going to destroy almost two- third of humanity.

If somehow the third world war can be postponed, AIDS seems to be more difficult than nuclear weapons. There seems to be no way in the hands of the old society to prevent it unless they accept the way of the life we propose, the way of the commune, that families disappear, that villages become communes, that big cities become few communes. Very big cities can become many communes.

But family remains no more the unit of society. Commune becomes the basic unit. That's the only possible way to avoid AIDS killing millions of people.

So the situation is in our favor. Just we have to be alert that they have power, but existence has left them alone. It is no more with them. Nature is no more with them. They have disturbed the ecology of nature, and nature is no more supportive of them.

(Tape side B) The very earth they have been standing has disappeared. They are simply hanging in the air.

We are on the solid ground, so we have to make them aware of their impotency, of their futility, that they have no future, that they have lived their past and it is time to start moving towards the graveyard.

I am reminded of an old Jew who was dying. A very rich man. His four sons were sitting around him thinking that, "Now he is going to die. How we are going to arrange the funeral procession?"

The eldest says, "Of course we will manage as many Rolls Royces as possible."

The second said, "Are you a fool? In his whole life he never sat in a Rolls Royce, so what is the point for a dead man? And what difference does it make to him that how many Rolls Royces are following his funeral procession? It will be unnecessarily too much wastage of money. I cannot support the idea. I think only one car will be enough. It need not be Rolls Royce. Any car... the cheapest possible, because a dead man is dead. Why waste money?"

The third man said, "But what is the need of a car? Just like old days, we can have a horse-driven buggy - cheap, aesthetic, traditional."

The fourth said, "You are all talking of unnecessary wastage. My idea is, what we are for? Four persons are enough to carry the stretcher. And we are young, and that will be some respect to the old man."

Listening to all this, the old man started getting up. The children asked, "Dad, what are you doing?"

He said, "I am looking for my shoes."

He said, "Where are you going?"

He said, "To the graveyard. Why unnecessarily bother you? While I am alive I can reach myself. And you are right that there is no need to waste. When a man is dead he is dead. And I have never been a burden on anybody, and I don't want to be a burden on you four. And it won't look good either, a rich man being carried by his four sons. This looks more manly, that I walk to my own grave.

You just keep the grave ready and I am coming."

We have to tell these people that, "We are making your grave ready, you just find out your shoes and walk down. Nobody is going to waste any energy in carrying you there to the graveyard.

"You have no future. You have lived too long. You have been a corpse hanging on the human chest. You have not allowed people to live. You were dead and you could not tolerate anybody to be happy, to be singing, to be dancing.

Because you could not do these things so you made everybody serious, you made seriousness something of a spiritual value. In fact, it is simply a disease.

"Just as there is well-being of the body, there is a well-being of the whole being.

In that well-being there is joy, there is laughter. Seriousness is part of a sick soul.

"So you have done enough harm. It is time you just leave humanity alone."

And the same has to be told to the politicians, that these nuclear weapons have not come from out of nowhere. They are the ultimate outcome of thousands of years of violent politics, of ambitious politicians, of nation against nation, race against race. Now it is time that this whole race has to be stopped. Otherwise this beautiful planet, which is in the whole solar system the only planet which has life, consciousness.

Not only that, but few people on this planet have reached to the highest peak of being. This earth has become really sacred. We will not allow this earth to be destroyed.

Temples and churches and synagogues are not sacred, but this earth is because it gave birth to a Socrates, to a Gautam Buddha, to a Lao Tzu, to a Bodhidharma.

This earth has done something which is unique.

It is suspected that in the whole universe, where are at least two million solar systems. In those two million solar systems, fifty thousand planets may have some kind of life. This is just a scientific guess. But no scientist has dared that anywhere in the whole universe life has reached to such a evolved state as to produce a Gautam Buddha.

Now to allow these idiotic politicians to destroy this earth is to destroy existence whole effort of millions of years. And it is not only that this earth is being destroyed. The whole universe is losing something which was attained with great difficulty, and perhaps it may take millions of years for another planet to come to such a position, such a state.

So our work is to raise consciousness around the world that, "Religions are dead and we are ready to give you a living religiousness so you will not feel empty, you will not miss your dead religion that you have been carrying."

And we have to tell the politicians that it is time you start thinking of dropping old ways of dividing the world into nations, because that's what creates war.

Those boundaries have to be withdrawn. The earth has to be declared one.

And we have to make our communes so rejoicingly creative that they become models, that soon others start seeing that in every way - economically, educationally, artistically, the commune is far richer than their old kind of society.

We have to make it so apparently clear that even blinds can see it and the deaf can hear it.

And the situation is ripe. There is no other alternative anywhere. Certainly the old forces will try to destroy us. That is natural. Always the old leaves the place very reluctantly for the new and for the stranger. But howsoever reluctantly he is, he will have to leave. That is the law of nature.

The old has to die for the new to come into existence.

We are proposing the new and they are clinging with the old. Hence I say there is every possibility of our communes being successful, not only successful but in a certain way the refuge for the whole new humanity.

Q: BHAGWAN, YOU HAVE DESCRIBED SILENCE AND ALONENESS AS THE GREATEST BLISS POSSIBLE IN LIFE. YET YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR SANNYASINS, LIVE IN COMMUNES AROUND YOU. HOW CAN THEY BEST EXPERIENCE THE BENEFITS OF SILENCE, ALONENESS AND COMMUNAL LIVING?

A: It is a very simple thing. People go on talking ninety-nine percent unnecessarily. One percent perhaps may be necessary but that can be written.

Just keep a notebook with yourself and watch your mind that, why you want to say something? Is it necessary? Is it going to serve any purpose? Or it is just the fear of silence that makes you talk? The fear of being alone that makes you talk?

Because that is the only communication you feel with somebody.

If two persons are sitting silently, they may be sitting very close but they are as far away as they can be. In silence the distance is infinite, because there is no link that joins them. Even strangers cannot sit for few minutes silently. Immediately they start asking about the other, where he is going, what is his name. Now it is none of their business.

While I was traveling, it was every day trouble, because I was always traveling in a air-conditioned coupe so only two persons were there, I and somebody else.

And I was continuously talking, and I wanted at least in the train I am left alone.

But the other person was boiling.

So I will enter the compartment and I will just put my finger on my mouth and say to the person, "Just wait." And then I will tell him my name, my father's name, my father's father's name, how many brothers I have, what education, what profession, where I am coming from, where I am going to. I will say it without his asking.

He will look at me aghast, afraid that, "What is the matter? I have not asked, not even your name, and you are telling your father's name, father's father's name, great-grandfather's name, how many children your father has, how many brothers he has, how many sisters he has, who is married, who is not married.

But I don't... Why you are telling all these things to me?"

I said, "I am just finishing the whole thing quickly. Otherwise, twenty-four hours we are going to be here in this compartment together. By and by you are going to ask all these things. If anything is left, you tell me, I want to finish it quickly because after that no more talking. Have you any questions?"

And he will automatically say, "I don't have any questions. In the first... I have not asked the first question either!"

I said, "Knowing man, I just answered in case. If it does not relate to you, forget about it. Forgive me. But here we finish."

And then it was worth seeing, the scene. I will be sitting and the man was tossing and turning, opening his suitcase, taking the book out, putting the book back, putting the light on, off, calling the servant for a glass of water, going to the bathroom again and again. And I was simply watching, just looking him doing all these things. And finally he will get too much angry because I am watching him, and he is doing stupid things. He knows that he is being stupid and I am simply watching and enjoying.

He will say that, "You have made one condition: not to speak. I will not speak, but you have to also follow one condition. Don't go on watching me, because that makes me crazy."

I said, "Okay, that's not a difficulty. I will keep my eyes closed. But once in a while can I open or not? Because once in a while I am in need to go to the bathroom. Have I to go with closed eyes?"

So I will keep my eyes closed, and once in a while I will open. And that was enough to trigger his anger and... And before he called the conductor I would go out and tell the conductor that, "Soon that passenger will call you to change his room. Remember, no room is vacant. All are full. Because I don't want to go again through the same process. Somehow I have trained him."

And all the conductors knew me because I was constantly on the train. They said, "We know how you train people. In twenty-four hours they must be losing at least four, five pounds weight. And by the time they get out of the train, they must be thinking they are getting out of imprisonment or something. You destroy their whole journey and you don't do anything, that we know."

(Tape side C) And it was bound to happen soon that he will call the conductor, that, "I want to change." The conductor will say that, "That is impossible. All the seats are booked."

And I will tell the person that, "If that seat is uncomfortable to you, you can come on my seat. I can come on your seat. What is the need of the conductor? We can change seats just in this cabin."

He said, "You please keep quiet. I don't want to talk with you myself. You are the whole cause of my trouble."

I said, "I have not done anything."

He said, "That is the most troublesome part of it, that you have not done anything and you have created such a craziness in me. I have never felt so crazy."

I said, "The only thing is that you want to talk. You do one thing that will help immensely, and I am not joking. When you go to the bathroom, have a good talk."

He said, "You please don't give me any suggestions of that kind. You want the whole compartment people knowing that I am mad, talking to myself in the bathroom."

I said, "No, I was just giving you a clue, because when it becomes too much to me I do it myself."

And next time when he went into the bathroom he was doing it, and when he came back he was smiling at me and he said, "You are right. It works. It feels light. Although I was afraid in the beginning, I started very slowly, whispering, but then I went on, almost started shouting and forgot completely about the people. And when I came out there were at least ten people gathered. They were all listening what I was saying. I have never delivered a speech before ten people.

But I am feeling so light. Let them think I am mad. They don't know me, I don't know them. Who cares?"

I said, "That's why I was saying to you that, 'You listen to my ideas. They will always help you.' So you just do one thing whenever you feel like talking. Watch whether it is of any use or just something like an inner itching, a irritation. Then it is better to write it down and keep it with yourself. Just writing it will help. It will be released. Soon you will see that all unnecessary things that you feel like talking have disappeared."

Perhaps there are few things which are necessary to talk, and you can write on a paper and give to the person. He can answer on the same paper. And you can work with hundreds of people without a single word uttered.

And this will give you many things: a great understanding why you want to talk.

It is not something useful, it is simply an insane urge to unburden you. But you are burdening the other person whom you are saying things, because he is listening and soon he will be saying the same things to somebody else.

I used to live in one place and my neighbor was a very old-fashioned theist, and was very respected by the people, almost like a saint. And I used to argue with him. My aunt used to live with me, and she will say that, "Why you harass that old man?"

I said, "You don't know. Whatever I say, he is bound to say to others."

She said, "What? You are saying things against his whole ideology!"

I said, "That does not matter. But once you put something into somebody's ear, it does not get out from the other ear. It gets out from the tongue. There is no other way. People have a wrong notion that you get from one ear, it gets out from the other ear. Impossible. There is no passage."

And one day my aunt told me that, "You were right because this morning I heard him. He was telling his neighbor exactly the same thing yesterday he was arguing against with you. He was giving your argument, and with great joy, because the neighbor could not answer him."

I said, "Now you understand. Whatever I say to him, the whole day he is doing nothing else than talking to people. Soon he will become my 'His Master's Voice'

gramophone record.' Whether he thinks he is against me or for does not matter.

Once I put things into his computer, they are going to come out some way or other."

So when you say to something, somebody, you are unburdening yourself but you are burdening the other person, which is not good.

And as your silence will grow, you will be surprised. Just as you can burden people with your words, you can hold their hand in silence and you can unburden them with your silence. It works the same way, and that is therapeutic.

Then just the presence of somebody, if he is really silent, will be unburdening to you. Just feeling his silence, his presence, and you will feel so much burden, so many tensions, anxieties, have simply dropped.

Thirdly, if one becomes attuned with silence, accustomed of remaining silent, then whatever he says has a profound meaning because it is something condensed. It is out of silence. And whenever a word comes out of silence it has tremendous weight, authority, conviction. It has a life, it is not a dead word.

And that can be felt very easily. Then you are speaking from your very being.

The mind is being used only as a mechanism, but the message is coming from deeper down.

And it will reach to the other person exactly to the same depth as it has come from you. All that is needed on the other person's side is openness, receptivity.

So in a commune particularly, where everybody is making all his effort to be open, to be receptive, it is good to be silent. It is beneficial to be silent. It is a blessing to the whole commune to be silent.

That does not mean that you cannot speak. I am not saying that, "Repress, don't speak." I am saying, "Allow silence to grow, slowly. And whenever there is need to speak something, speak. But let it come out of your silence. And then see the difference. Then it comes like an arrow which goes directly to the other person's very heart."

Silence makes one really a poet. Each word spoken out of silence is poetry, is music.

Q: BHAGWAN, UNDER THE U.S. IMMIGRATION LAWS, YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED A RELIGIOUS TEACHER. YET YOU CALL YOURSELF A FRIEND WHO IS THERE TO HELP US IN OUR INDIVIDUAL GROWTH AND MEDITATION. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

A: The difference is much. The leader has to be followed. He requires faith. He wants you to believe in him. He asks for surrender. He destroys your individuality. He creates an army of slaves. They don't have any say, they have just to follow.

Just following the leader is enough. They will be saved. The price to be saved is to become a slave, to lose your individuality, to become just a shadow.

The guide is totally different. The guide needs no belief on your part, no faith on your part, no following on your part. The guide simply explains his experience and leaves it up to you, whatever you want to make of it. You are not to accept it blindly. If it appeals to your heart, if without believing in it there arises a trust in you... The difference with the leader: you believe in his system of thought. With the guide you trust and love the person, not the ideology or the system of thought.

With the leader it is a business phenomenon. He promises you some goods which will be delivered after death if you fulfill certain conditions now. With the guide there is no business. It is just a love affair. You love the presence of the person, you feel that he has reached somewhere where you also would like to reach.

And the guide makes it clear to you that, "You cannot follow my footsteps, because then you will never reach where I have reached. Because each individual is unique and has to find his own path. So I can give you a feel of certainty that such a space exists. I can explain you the way I have followed.

I can give you the encouragement which will be needed on the path many times.

There will be dark nights of the soul and you would like to come back rather than go ahead, because it seems it is growing darker and darker. But the guide can say to you that, "My experience is, when the night is darkest the morning is closest."

So the guide is a friend in this sense, that he will help you to find your path. On your path, whenever there are difficulties he may be able to help you to understand them, to bypass them or overstep them. Whenever you will fall into a discouraged, depressed state, his presence, his love, will drag you out of your depression. His presence will make you feel that the goal is not far away.

So the work of the guide is very intimate. That's why I call it the friend, to make it more intimate.

Leader is a political word. And because religious leaders also were hidden political leaders, nobody has ever objected to it. Otherwise, there is no question to lead anyone. It is humiliating human beings.

Jesus says to his disciples, "I am your shepherd. You are my sheep." And not a single one raises the question that, "This is insulting. At least, leave us human beings. Don't destroy us so much." But that's what all leaders are bound to do, to make themselves big, high. They have to reduce you as low as possible. If you are not the sheep, then Jesus Christ is not the shepherd. It is absolutely essential that you should be reduced to be sheep so that he can be the shepherd.

This is a simple psychological exploitation.

A guide is not above you, is not holier than you. A guide is just like you. The only difference is he has reached the peak. You are in the valley. He has come back to the valley to take you, but he knows the path that he has followed cannot be your path. Otherwise your uniqueness will be lost.

He can give you the certainty that the peak exists and that your love and his authority, his experience, will make it possible for you to search for your own way.

And as far as the inner journey is concerned, the guide can always be available in any crisis, in any trouble. You may be lost, you may forget the way. You may start moving away from the peak. The guide can watch that whether you are growing rightly or not. There are indications which show whether the person is going right or not.

And if you love the person, you will listen. You will try to correct your way.

So it is a very intimate relationship between guide, or the friend... The word leader is ugly.

But in that INS application form they have only one category for religion; that is, 'religious leader'. So there was no other way. Now I will have to fight in the court, that your form and your categories need to be updated. If I don't fit in your categories, then the categories have to be changed. Every law exists for man. No man exists for law.

So I have to say it. It is going to be a beautiful fight because I don't know any one of them is able even to define what religion is. Or any one of them has ever experienced anything they can call religious. So on what grounds they have made those categories? They should seek help from some guide. I am available!

Q: BHAGWAN, YOU HAVE CALLED THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION 'THE ONLY CONSTITUTION IN THE WORLD WHICH HAS SOME DEMOCRATIC FRAGRANCE ABOUT IT'. CAN YOU SPEAK MORE ABOUT THIS AND WHY YOU SEE THAT IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO FIGHT FOR THIS CONSTITUTION?

A: It is certainly the most significant constitution in the world. The Soviet Constitution is non-democratic. It declares the dictatorship of the proletariat. But in the name of the dictatorship of the proletariat, a small group of Communists have been ruling the country for sixty years continuously.

The other Constitution is British Constitution which was basically imperialistic.

The empire has disappeared but the Constitution remains the same. Still the queen is the head of the country. The country is her private property. The countries that belonged to British Empire have all made their constitutions after their independence according the British Constitution, because that was the only constitution they were acquainted with.

There are countries like India which have tried to take everything good from all the constitutions of the world, included in their Constitution. But they completely forgot that a poor country cannot afford many high values.

For example, a poor country cannot accept democracy in its totality. It will have to follow in some way or other, something dictatorial. For example, birth control:

population goes on increasing, the country will be by this end, one fifth of the whole world. Out of five persons, one will be Indian. One billion will be the population of India. They have not been able even to feed perfectly four hundred million people. How they are going to feed one thousand million people? And a country in which six hundred thousand people will be starving and dying will not be worth living. Those who will be living will be living amongst corpses. So they have accepted democratic values without seeing that their countries need is different.

American Constitution declares freedom of speech. That includes freedom of thinking, freedom of writing, freedom of expression, in any form. Although it is in the Constitution, but even American politicians have not been able to keep pace with the Constitution. If freedom of expression is there, then you cannot prohibit or ban any book on any grounds. You cannot say that 'This novel has obscene pictures, obscene scenes, hence it cannot be published'. This is against your Constitution, because there is no clarification, that freedom of expression will not be allowed to obscenity.

Freedom of expression includes everything. And there should be no fear of obscenity. But the Christian churches, the Christian politicians, they go on dragging the Constitution down into the mud. Respect for the individual, which is not shown in reality, respect for private property, which is just in words. Half of the land of Oregon is Federal Government's property. The other half also they want.

And they are against this commune for many reasons. One reason is: now how they can have this land. They may have the whole of Oregon; they cannot have these one hundred twenty six square miles at any cost. They were trying to negotiate, but they were offering too small a price. When we purchased it, we offered the double price. They were offering three million; we offered six million.

And the owner understood that he can never get six million from the Federal Government.

They are angry on that point: that we took away the land which was almost settling in their hands. Because for fifty years it was just negotiations, negotiations; the owner was fed up. And they were thinking sooner or later he will have to sell it, because what he will do? And nobody else was there to purchase it. What you can do with a desert?

And they were interested because they want the whole Oregon to become a nuclear shelter. So these hills, deserts, will be the right places. They will not be attacked by nuclear weapons. Oregon will be the last to be attacked, because what it has got?

In fact, just in these four years, the world has become aware of Oregon because of us. Otherwise, who has heard about Oregon? And even today, except us, there is no news in Oregon. We have to create news, and still they don't feel any gratitude!

The Constitution has all that is needed for what I call 'meritocracy'. But Americans are not following their own Constitution. They are in every way going against it.

In the first place, if they are sincere, then the government should belong to the Red Indians because it is their land. That will be respect for private property.

In fact, the people you call Americans are not Americans. They are all foreigners.

Somebody is Italian; somebody is Spanish; somebody is English; somebody is French. But nobody is American.

And look how words can create deceptions. The Americans are called Red Indians. They are the Americans. But nobody even calls them Americans. Just the word creates a great fallacy. It seems America belongs to Americans - naturally.

But America belongs to Red Indians who are really the Americans. And the people who are pretending to be Americans are none of them Americans. They are invaders, occupying some poor people's land and talking about democracy and freedom.

I have to bring it before the Supreme Court. Fight with me is not going to be easy. I have to ask the Supreme Court that "If you really have any dignity, any humanity, and any respect for your Constitution, then the first thing is: give the government to those whose land you are occupying. And you have some guts, you are all foreigners and for four years you have not been able to decide for me:

whether I can stay in American permanently or not. In the first place, who are you to decide it? Who decided it for you? Have you received green cards from Red Indians? Have you received your passport from Red Indians? You invade a country. Violently you destroy the country's poor people. Their beautiful land you, in every way, pollute it, corrupt its ecology. And still in the whole world you go on calling yourself 'the most democratic country'. Give the government to the Red Indians. And tell all so-called Americans, who are not Americans, that:

either you can go back to your country, or you can apply for green card."

They may not have faced any case about green card, the way they are going to face my case.

And we are not invaders. We have purchased the property. And we have not forcibly purchased it. We have paid more than the Federal Government was paying for it. We have paid double. "And the way you have paid, shows that how it must have been done. The whole New York area was purchased in ninety dollars. Do you call it business? Or just cheating poor people? Just ninety dollars for the whole New York?"

American Constitution is beautiful because the people who wrote it had some ideals in their mind. But they were still politicians. So although they had ideals, they made a beautiful Constitution, but they never realised the fact that their Constitution goes against their very government.

And I am going to bring it before the whole world. They have been condemning Soviet Union for dictatorship, but at least those are Soviet people; that is their land. If they chose to be a dictatorship, it is their business. "This is not your land, and you have forced the real Americans into reservation camps, which are nothing but American translation for German concentration camps."

The reality is very ugly. And I would like to make it known to the whole world.

It seems as if people have forgotten. They have started thinking that this land is theirs. And if they can do what I am saying, they will really prove democratic, lovers of freedom, really fair and just. And if it is possible then the third world war becomes automatically impossible, because Red Indians cannot manage nuclear weapons, nor they will be interested in it.

Soon I will have to face the Supreme Court and I will ask. If they want, I will face the Senate, or whosoever they want, I am ready to face it. And I know they don't have any argument against me. They have committed such a grave crime against red Indians that they will have to do something. Otherwise, drop your hypocrisy and show your ugly face as it is - as we are seeing in these four years continuously.

Now we are seeing... We have given all evidences, eyewitnesses, testimonies, but they are not taking any step against the criminals. On the contrary, they will go on postponing so it becomes faded away in the people's mind.

And other things which are not so important they are bringing immediately, before the criminal cases start they will start immigration cases, they will start marriage cases. Their whole effort will be to buy time so they can somehow find a way to give immunity to the real criminals and destroy the whole commune.

Then innocent people can be dumped with all the crimes.

But whatever criminal idea they may have in their mind, I know politicians don't have much of a mind in the first place and we will be able to fight it without any difficulty, and mostly because the constitution is in our favor on each single point.

So it is going to be a strange confrontation. We are strangers, we don't belong to any country, and we will be defending the constitution of America against the American politicians who are prostituting it.

This will make history. Okay.