Just give way

Question 1:

The question is from Yoga Chinmaya.

The word 'esoteric' means the hidden - it is ridiculous because nothing is hidden. All is obvious, God is obvious; if you cannot see, it is not because God is hidden, but because you are keeping your eyes closed. The sun is there, the light is there; if you keep your eyes closed and then you call the sun 'esoteric', that means you don't even want to accept that you are keeping your eyes closed.

You are throwing the responsibility onto the sun itself: 'What can we do? If God is hidden, what can we do? It is His responsibility.' And the priests have loved the word very much, because if God is obvious then what will be the need for the priest? God has to be hidden. If he is not, then he has to be forced to hide somewhere! Then the need for the priest arises - a mediator who will make you aware of things which are hidden; who will help you, who will guide you to the secret world of the truth.

Truth is very obvious. In Zen they have a saying: From the very beginning nothing is hidden. It is the declaration of truth, hence the word 'esoteric' is ridiculous, stupid.

And you ask 'The word "esoteric" has been used in a very sacred sense...'.

There is nothing sacred either. Life is simple; there is nothing sacred and nothing secular. My whole effort here is to help you to dissolve the distinction between the sacred and the secular. The secular should become the sacred and the sacred should become the secular. That's why I insist that you should remain part of the market world and meditate. Meditation should not be a thing apart from life; it should be amidst life, it should be a part of life an organic part, nothing 'put separate'. The temple should exist exactly in the middle of the market, and all distinctions between the sacred and the secular should be dissolved.

Life is one.

But again the priest comes in. He wants to make distinctions, he wants to tell you that your life is ugly, that your life is mundane, that you are a worldly being. He is spiritual, he is something superior beyond you, beyond your reach. He is holy, you are unholy; he is a saint and you are a sinner.

These distinctions have to be created. These are ego distinctions: somebody is rich, somebody is poor - then the ego can exist. Somebody is holy and somebody is not holy - again the ego can exist. The ego can exist only through distinctions of inferiority and superiority. 'This world is inferior.'

A man who lives an ordinary life. Loves his wife, children, goes to work. is an ordinary human being condemned by the priests, by the so-called MAHATMAS. They exploit this same ordinary man, they live on him, they are suckers - but they are holy, they are spiritual. Their hands are never muddied because they don't work, they don't move into life. They remain far away: they are 'holy'. And the man who lives is 'unholy'.

If you look deeply you will find that the very word 'sacred' is based on ego distinctions. What is sacred and what is not sacred? If God is everywhere, then everything is sacred. If God is in the rock and in the tree and in the man and in the woman, then everything is sacred. God is everywhere, in everything; God is the only reality - then how can anything be undivine? Even the devil has to be divine. And that is the beauty of the word 'devil': it comes from the same root as 'divine'. The devil has to be divine otherwise he cannot be.

So I want to dissolve all distinctions, because through distinctions ego exists. So I don't say what is sacred and what is ordinary. To me the ordinary is extraordinary, the mundane is sacred. the day-to-day life is holy life - hence I use the word 'esoteric' as a ridiculous word. It hurts many people because there are many people who think that if religion is obvious then where will they find their ego-trip? If everything is unhidden from the very beginning, then their ego has no challenge.

Ego is challenged only by the difficult. This is my observation: that if you find one hundred person interested in religious enquiry ninety-nine will be there only because God is almost impossible. That gives the thrill, that makes them feel good - that they are going to attain the impossible. Others are only working for the possible and they are working for the impossible. They feel very good; their ego is strengthened.

Here with me, God is the only possibility. nothing else is possible. And God is not impossible. He is just in front of you, he is not hidden. He is holding your hand, he is sitting by your side. He is in your child in your wife, in your husband. He is in your friend and he is in your foe. He surrounds you from everywhere: you exist in the ocean of God. But then the egoist feels dull. He says 'Then what is the point?' The egoist wants to go to the moon because it is impossible. The egoist wants to go to Mt.

Everest because it is impossible.

When somebody asked Edmund Hillary 'Why? Why in the first place did you become interested in going to Mt. Everest? And what was the point? There was nothing to gain.'

Edmund Hillary said 'I had to go, man had to conquer it.'

'But why?' the questioner asked.

Hillary said 'Why? - because it is there, standing there so aloof, so impossible. Man had to conquer it for no other reason... just because it is a great challenge.'

God is far away in the heavens - then the ego feels thrilled, then there is adventure. And I say he is very close by - then the ego feels no interest. Remember this trip of the ego.

Ego can play such beautiful games, such beautiful, subtle games, that if you are not aware, you will never get out of it. And unless you get out of it, you will never see God. Ego is what I mean when I say your eyes are closed: it is the curtain of the ego that is keeping them closed. Drop the curtain and you will know that from the very beginning nothing is hidden and there is nothing that is not sacred, so what is the point in making such distinctions? I don't make them. I am not a priest, I am not a MAHATMA, I am not a saint. I am a very ordinary person, as ordinary as you are.

My whole work consists in this: to declare that ordinary human beings are divine. Ordinary human beings like me are divine. You are also divine.

Question 2:

Whatsoever I say you don't hear, hence the confusion. The way that I say it, you don't hear in the same way; you interpret it, you bring your mind in. A constant commentary is going on in your minds:

while I am speaking you are continuously commenting inside you. Your commentary does not allow me to reach to your heart. All that I pour into you never reaches. Only fragments reach; much is missed, hence the confusion.

Those fragments you cannot put together. Even if you try to put them together they never fit, because much is missing and then you start feeling confused. I am not confusing you - you confuse yourself.

If you listen to me all confusion will disappear. You will become FUSED, you will become one. But I say something, you hear something else.

They strolled into the park. It was a beautiful day. Perfect for the youth and romance that youth is entitled to enjoy.

'See those humming birds flapping their wings a thousand times a minute?' she said.

'Yes' he answered softly. 'And they have their bills together.'

'Let's do that' she implored.

'Gee' he said breathlessly 'I'm afraid I can't flap my arms that fast.'

This is continuously going on... I say something, you understand something else. You go on misunderstanding me; your prejudices come in the way. Your philosophies, your religions, your accumulated knowledge, continuously distract you, hence the confusion. Those who hear me - they are never confused. Those who don't hear me - only they are confused. So learn how to listen.

Become more alert. When you listen to me, don't think! Become pure awareness, transparent; just a clarity, mirror-like - don't distort. Just listen to it, there is no hurry to decide.

I am not saying believe what I am saying - I am neither saying believe it nor am I saying don't believe it - I am simply saying listen to it. There is no question of belief or disbelief. If you have listened rightly, things will start happening. So don't be in a hurry to judge whether what I am saying is right or what I am saying is wrong. I am not asking for your conviction, your approval, disapproval; I am simply asking for your transparent, mirror-like clarity. In that very clarity, whatsoever is true reaches deep into your heart, sinks deep; and whatsoever is untrue never penetrates that clarity, that transparence. Transparence is the only protection against the untrue.

What is happening right now? You are not transparent, so only distorted things enter. Whatsoever goes with your prejudices enters in, and whatsoever goes against your prejudices - you don't allow it, you don't hear it. You don't even want to hear that it has been said, because you feel afraid. If you hear it, your prejudices may become weakened, may become loose. Your whole investment in the past is at stake every moment with me. And what I am saying is rebellion, it is not tradition. If you cling to the tradition, there will be great confusion. If you cling to the scripture, there will be great confusion. Don't cling to anything. Just listen to me and you will see that there is no confusion. And out of that clarity understanding arises.

Understanding is not intellectual; it is not a by-product of thinking. Understanding arises when you listen to me totally - as if your whole body had become your ears; mind, body, soul, all together, just drinking me in. Then arises understanding. And understanding never confuses; understanding has no possibility of confusion.

Sometimes I say things to shock you because that is the only way to wake you. The purpose is not to shock you; the purpose is to wake you. Sometimes I say things to uproot your prejudices. I am not against them. I am simply trying to clean your ground... as if a person wanted to plant a new garden, a new lawn. What is he going to do first? The weeds have to be removed, the soil has to be cleaned of all stones, weeds, grass. If that is not done, then roses cannot grow there. While I am talking to you it is a continuous effort to uproot weeds. If you cling to those weeds, you will feel very disturbed: I am uprooting and you are trying to protect them - then there is a constant fight between me and you.

That's why I insist so much that this fight disappears if you become a sannyasin, if you become an initiate. You are more in tune with me, you are less afraid of me. You feel more deeply in love with me, more EN RAPPORT, and work becomes easy. When you don't protect, things can be done fast; the ground can be cleaned very easily. And once the ground is clean, then there is a possibility for beautiful roses.

A well-brought up young lady, who can handle a car in the country but isn't so sure of herself in traffic, decided recently to take a course at one of the city auto schools to brush up on her driving.

To her utter astonishment, soon after she had started out on her first lesson, the instructor leaned over, close to her ear and queried softly. 'Did I hear you call me "darling"?'

'Sir!' cried the young lady, hotly, forgetting all about her driving and turning to glare.

'That's just to teach you, Miss' the instructor responded sternly 'no matter what anybody says to you, keep your eyes on the road.'

Sometimes I shock you, sometimes I say things that you had never expected I would say.

Unexpected, you cannot believe what I am saying; it simply shakes you to your very roots. But remember only one thing: I am not enjoying shocking you. The purpose is to awaken you. When the alarm goes in the morning it is not against you. You may feel it is against you - it looks like an enemy: you want to sleep, it is cold, you would like to have another turn and snuggle under the blanket and have a little more of a beautiful dream, and now this alarm goes on and on and on. I have known people who have thrown their alarm clocks. It is natural, but foolish too. Sometimes you may be very hurt by me - your prejudices are deep-rooted, of long standing - but my purpose is not to shock, my purpose is to wake you.

Confusion is coming because you are not hearing me. I am not responsible for it, you are responsible for it. Remember one very basic rule: whatsoever happens to you, you are finally responsible for it; nobody else can be responsible for it. Take responsibility. Whatsoever happens to you - misery, happiness, confusion, sadness, clarity - nobody else is responsible. Never throw your responsibility on somebody else, because that is the way of the slave. Then you will remain a slave for ever and ever; you will never become free.

If I can confuse you, then what sort of clarity do you have? Then anybody can confuse you; then wherever you go, people will confuse you. When will you become unconfused then, and how? No, you have to understand: unless you want to be confused, nobody can confuse you. And unless you want to become clear, nobody can give you the clarity either. If I could give you the clarity I would have given it. There would be no need to wrestle with you every day. I would simply give it to you and be finished, but it cannot be given.

You have to learn one basic law: that whatsoever happens to you, YOU are responsible for it - nobody else, never - it is always you. And this is the way that one becomes a master of one's own being. When you are unhappy, remember you are making yourself unhappy. Maybe there is an excuse outside, but the excuse can never make anybody unhappy unless you want to be unhappy.

When you are happy there is an excuse outside. And once you have understood you will find there are always millions of excuses outside, you have to choose. If you want to have misery, if you need misery, if you love misery, you can always find excuses, they are available. The world gives a great opportunity to each kind of mood, to each state of mind. You can choose, but the choice is yours.

Question 3:

The question is from Amida.

The very idea 'to be holy' is stupid. Amida, be aware of it - it is an ego-trip. The very idea of being holy means to be holier than others; it is comparative. In that very idea you want to have your superiority over others: others are unholy, Amida is holy. So naturally it always comes out 'good girl' - it is bound to. You will become a goody-goody, and that is one of the ugliest things that can happen to a person. You will lose all life. You will become a saint, but a saint is a dead man, just pure ego, pious ego, and nothing else.

This is a new turn in the world of the ego. First you want to be a famous star, or you want to be the richest man in the world, or the president of a country, or a prime minister - things like that. Then one day you feel that is useless. You see the prime ministers and you see the presidents and you see the richest man and the most famous star committing suicide, and then you start feeling frustrated because they have not attained anything. Then there is only one more way: to look into the world of religion. 'Become holy - maybe these holy people have attained.' But I tell you, those who want to attain, never attain. Whatsoever their goal, whatsoever their object, they always fail. Frustration is their fate, they are doomed to fail; failure is their destiny. Why? - because all attainment is in the future, and life is here-now.

So don't bother to be good, don't bother to be this and that, just be whosoever you are. Accept it and live it. If you can start living totally, fully, not holding anything back, if you start flowing totally, your life will have a fragrance; that fragrance I call 'religion'. It has nothing to do with holy or unholy, with virtue and sin - no. It is the fragrance of a flowing life, of a dynamic life, or one who is not stagnant, of one who is not divided, of one who has no future, no past, of one who has only the present - the only moment - and lives it. Live each moment as if you were going to die the next, and then there will be a great intensity and a great passion. You will be aflame with life. That being aflame is what being divine is to me.

If you ask me, that will be my definition of the holy: 'aflame with life' - as if a torch were burning from both ends together. A great passion, a great fire.... This is the last moment, why not live it totally? If God allows you another moment, again it is the last moment. Don't wait, don't postpone.

All these ideas of being good are of postponement. How can you be good right now? You will have to wait for tomorrow. To be good means to train, to discipline, yourself, to drop many things, to grow new qualities, to have a new character - morality, and of course it is going to be very painful because you will constantly be in a fight with yourself. Anything that creates a rift in your being is ugly. Remember, anything that creates a division in your being, which makes you split, makes you schizophrenic, is pathological. Be total, be one.

So don't judge. The moment you say 'This is good and that is bad', you have judged, you have divided. Now you will be in trouble. Whenever you will be doing bad, you will only be doing it half- heartedly because one part will say 'This is bad, don't do it! You know this is bad, don't do it!' And if you do good, you will know that it is not satisfying, and the bad part will go on pulling you - 'Why are you wasting your energy, why are you fasting while you could have feasted? Why do you remain in celibacy when you could have loved a beautiful woman?'

When you are trying to be good, whatsoever you have called bad will take revenge, will go on pulling you from the back and, sooner or later, it will pull you into the bad. When you are doing the bad, when you are making love to a woman, suddenly you will remember that Mahatma Gandhi says BRAHMACHARYA IS the only thing to be done. Making love to a woman... and in comes a MAHATMA and stands just between you and your woman. Again everything is disturbed. You cannot love perfectly, totally, absolutely; and then there is frustration. You feel that you have committed a sin, then you want to do something good to keep the balance, otherwise you will become very lopsided.

This is how I see people: moving from good to bad, from bad to good, again and again; their whole life is just a continuous movement between opposite polarities.

What is my teaching? What is Tao? Tao is to accept life in its totality and not to divide it. There is nothing good and nothing bad. Whatsoever happens, let it happen. Allow it. Don't struggle.

When you listen to me, suddenly your mind will say that this is dangerous, because you know you have repressed many bad things... so if you allow it, those bad things will start coming into your mind. Just listening to me, watch your mind. When I say 'Whatsoever happens, let it happen' you have started planning to escape with the neighbour's wife, because that has been coming naturally to you - you have been avoiding it because you are a good person, a respectable citizen. What to do then?

I have heard about an office....

The boss was very worried because people were not working as they should. He asked a psychologist what to do. The psychologist said 'You just put many signs in the office: Do it Today because Tomorrow Never Comes.' So he fixed many signs - on almost every table, every wall - and by the evening the psychologist came to enquire what happened. The boss was crying and he said 'You destroyed my whole business!'

'But' he said 'what happened?'

He said 'What happened! My typist escaped with the receptionist, the cashier has taken all the money, and the office boy wanted to murder me. All finished! They said "Do it today. Why are you waiting? Tomorrow never comes." They were all thinking to do these things.... "So this is the last chance if you want to do it" - so they have done it.'

When I say 'Do whatsoever happens', suddenly you will feel the great urge of all that you have repressed. That's natural, but that is only because you have repressed; it will come and go. If you allow it, soon it will be released; you will become normal. You will become absolutely normal and healthy. And once you have become balanced and you are not being pulled in opposite directions continuously, an integrity arises in you - and I call that integrity real holiness. It has nothing to do with good, nothing to do with bad; it has something to do with totality.

The word 'holy' comes from the word 'whole'. Whole means total. The basic root is right: 'holy'

means one who is living a whole life. Don't try to be goody-goody, allow everything, then your life will have richness. A goody-goody person is nauseating. If you have the misfortune of living with a goody-goody person you will feel like vomiting. He is so good, no salt at all... saccharine. A man needs a little salt too, a man needs a little bitterness too, a man needs a little sourness too that makes life enriched. A man needs a little devil too, then you live more fully.

I am not against the devil; I am all for God, but I am not against the devil. In fact, if a God is really God he will absorb the devil into himself too, he will not deny him. A God, if he really is God, must be capable of absorbing the devil too. If you ask my definition... God is one who can absorb the devil without becoming devilish, and the devil is one who cannot absorb God at all without becoming godly - that's the definition. The devil is very incapable. He cannot absorb God without becoming godly and God is infinity: he can absorb the devil without becoming devilish. Even a devil will have a place in God's being and will give some beauty to God. will function as a background, will become the field. If God is the figure, the devil will become the field.

If you want to paint you have to use many colours. If you use only one colour your painting will be very dull and boring. The more colours, the more rich the painting will be. And if you drop the black colour completely, your painting will miss something. The black is needed because only through the black does the white come clear and loud.

So I am not teaching you to be good, I am not teaching you to be bad; I am teaching you only to be whole. To be whole is to be healthy and to be healthy is to be holy.

But the ego does not want to be whole, because once you are whole the ego cannot exist. The ego exists only in the split. When you are fighting with yourself, the ego exists. The ego always exists through conflict; conflict is its food, nourishment. So if you are whole, the ego cannot exist. You can watch it. You can go and watch the criminals - they have their ego, you can go and watch your saints - they have their ego: the ego of the good and the ego of the bad. But if you can find a man who has no ego, he will be neither a sinner nor a saint, he will be very simple. He will not claim anything good or bad; he will not claim at all.

The ego is created by the rift. When you are fighting, the ego comes in; when you are not fighting, the ego cannot come in. Ego is a TENSION. If you want the ego, then divide yourself as fully as possible - become two persons. That is what is happening to many people, that is what has happened to whole of humanity. Everybody has become two persons: one voice says 'Do this', the other voice says 'Don't do that' - then the ego arises. Out of friction ego arises, and ego is very intoxicating; it makes you unconscious. This is the whole mechanism.

For ego, you have to fight, divide, create conflict. An inner violence, an inner war - and then ego arises, and ego intoxicates. It makes you very unconscious, as if you were always on drugs. It does not allow you to see things as they are.

Another athletic drunk appeared at a ticket window in Louisville with a companion slung over his shoulder out cold. 'One seat to Cincinnati' he demanded.

The ticket seller said 'How about that big lug you're carrying?'

'Him?' deprecated the drunk. 'Thass jus' my little six-year-old boy Abner.'

'Six years old, eh?' said the ticket seller. 'Why, he's fully six feet tall, weight about one eighty-five, and has a beard three inches long!'

The drunk dumped his companion on the platform and grumbled 'Dammit, Abner! I told you to shave!'

A drunk is a drunk; he cannot see things as they are. He projects, imagines, and thinks that if he is befooled, he can befool the whole world.

The egoist - watch the egoist - thinks that if he is befooled, he can befool everybody. Have you not observed the fact that your ego becomes very apparent to everybody else except you? You know everybody else's ego except your own. The husband knows the ego of the wife, the wife knows the ego of the husband, the children know the ego of the parents, the parents know the ego of the children - nobody knows his own. Deep down it creates such an intoxicated state that when everybody is aware of your ego, only you are not aware. And if people say something to make the truth and the facts known to you, you are bound to misinterpret or you are bound to hear something else. When somebody says that you are very egoistic, you will say 'I know he himself is an egoist and it is his ego.'

She wasn't exactly anything to look at, but she had heart and a desire for show business. 'I'm going to London's Theatrical Agency about a job' she told a friend.

The friend eyed her carefully. He saw her bulbous figure, her ugly face, her stringy hair. He thought about her scratchy voice and her sloppy dress. 'There's no use going there' he said diplomatically 'unless you've got good legs.'

'Why?' she was genuinely puzzled. 'Haven't they got an elevator?'

It is very difficult to understand even if it is pointed out; even if everybody points at it you will not understand. You remain drugged.

Two drunks registered at a hotel and asked for twin beds. However, in the darkness they both got into the same bed.

'Hey' yelled the first drunk 'they gypped me. There's another man in my bed.'

'There's a guy in my bed too' called the second.

Let's throw 'em out' called back the first.

A terrific wrestling match ensued and finally one drunk went sailing out of the bed. 'How'd you make out?' the drunk on the floor called.

'I threw my guy out' the bedded drunk replied. 'How about you'?'

'He threw me out.'

'Well, that makes us even. Get into bed with me and go to sleep.'

Be watchful about the ego. It is the greatest drug that exists and it drugs you so badly that you become almost incapable of seeing what is what. But the ego is created by conflict between good and bad, so if you want to drop the ego, you will have to drop the conflict between good and bad.

And to drop the conflict between good and bad is the greatest act of courage a man can afford, and that brings you to the very door of divinity.

God is neither good nor bad. The day you are neither good nor bad you become divine.

Question 4:

The question is from Devesh. He will not ask unless he is really in difficulty, so I have to answer.

He is not the one to ask just because of curiosity. His sleep must be disturbed. It must be haunting his mind. He must have brooded over it for many days, because this is nothing new, this Hollywood business: it is already very old news.

A few things: first. you know journalists.... All over the world that is the worst profession a person can choose and then Indian journalists.... I cannot stand two types of persons: the journalist and the professor and unfortunately I have been both in my life maybe that's why I cannot stand them. So it is a fiction created by journalists. Maybe Laxmi was talking to them and she may have said something which could have been interpreted as if I were going to Hollywood. Maybe she was talking about the 'holy wood'.

Adolf Hitler was very worried about his death. Naturally... he had killed so many people, it was natural that he should be worried about his own death - all those killed Jews must have been haunting him. So he enquired. Somebody suggested 'There is a great Jewish astrologer, the greatest in Germany. Only he can say something about when you will die, how you will die; and he has always predicted rightly - he can be relied upon. All his predictions have been one hundred per cent correct.'

But he was a Jew. Still Adolf Hitler called him asked him. The Jew brooded over it closed his eyes and he said 'Yes it has come: you will die on a Jewish holiday.'

Hitler said, 'Make it exact. What do you mean? What Jewish holiday?'

And the man said 'That is difficult. One thing is certain: whenever you die that will be a Jewish holiday.'

So, wherever Osho goes. that will be Hollywood that's natural. Don't be worried about such things.

Question 5:

The question is from Purna; a beautiful question, significant: What will happen if a follower of Gurdjieff comes across a Taoist Master?

What happens when a river comes falling, tumbling, down off a hillock upon strong rocks? If you look, you will think 'Those rocks are so hard, what can the river do, what can this waterfall do?' But if you come after a few years, you will find those rocks are gone; they have become sand. The soft water has become victorious over hard rocks. Lao Tzu calls it 'the watercourse way', the way of the soft, the way of the feminine.

What happens when a man, a very strong man and a very fragile beautiful woman come across each other, what happens? The man looks like a rock and the woman looks like just a small rivulet, tumbling from a hillock... but whatsoever the appearances, the final victory is of the feminine; the woman wins over. She is soft, the man is hard, and the paradox is that the woman surrenders and through surrender she conquers; and the man never surrenders, but even never surrendering, one day the finds that he has been taken over, he has been possessed. Even the strongest men, Napoleon or Alexander, are strong when they are outside: when they come home they are no more strong. Then their fragile wife is all strong. There is a strength in softness.

Tao is the way of the soft, the feminine way, the watercourse way. Gurdjieff s way is the way of the rock. If it happens that a Taoist and a follower of Gurdjieff meet, in the beginning you will say that the follower of Gurdjieff is winning, but finally, eventually. you will find that he has disappeared and the Taoist has won over. That has always been so. You cannot defeat the soft. Maybe, for the time being, you can have a certain victory, but you cannot really defeat the soft.

It is impossible to defeat the soft. The soft is so fragile, so ready to disappear... that's why it cannot be FORCED to disappear.

Lao Tzu says 'Nobody can defeat me because I am already defeated. Nobody can defeat me because I don't hanker for victory at all.' How can you defeat him who has no desire to be victorious?

The way of the hard, what Buddhists call VAJRAYANA, 'the way of the diamond'.... The diamond is the hardest thing in the world - that is exactly the right word for it, VAJRAYANA, 'the way of the diamond'. But even the diamond will have to give way to water.

It has always been so and it is good that it is so - that simply shows that God wins. The one who is humble, the one who is meek, wins. Says Jesus 'Blessed are the meek, for theirs is the kingdom of God.'

The Gurdjieffian way is the way of the will. It takes you to the last-but-one step. It takes you exactly to the last-but-one step. The final step has to be Taoist, because through the will you can come to a peak of your will, but then one has to surrender that peak of the will; it has to be surrendered. The only difference between the path of surrender and the path of will is that on the path of surrender you surrender as the first step, on the path of will you surrender as the last step - that's the only difference. What is required as the last step on the path of will is required as the first step on the path of surrender. So those who are wise will choose the path of surrender because what is the point in struggling so hard for so long, and then finally relaxing, then finally dropping everything?

What is the point? If you are incapable of relaxation, okay, then you go on the path of will; otherwise the path of surrender is simply the wisest way because it is the path of least resistance, in fact of non-resistance.

The question is significant and it is from Purna. She herself is a little rock-like, very hard. She is a woman, but very hard, very German - she is a German, very-willed. She could have moved on the Gurdjieffian path very easily. Here she is in wrong company, but she is relaxing... by and by she is understanding. Her struggle, fight, is going, her ego is dropping. The soft will win over.

The question is not just an intellectual one, that's why I say it is significant; it is very important to Purna: it is her situation. If she were in a Gurdjieffian school she would be on the right track as far as her own nature is concerned - superficial nature, of course - the way she is right now, she would have felt very in tune. Here she is in a Taoist world, but great is her courage - she is trying, and she will succeed. She will become effortless one day.

So the question has come from the very core of her heart. It is HER question; it is not an intellectual gymnastic. It is not that she has read it somewhere, it has come out of her own situation. She is rock-like and the rock has started to hurt, and so now she understands it.

Now the rock has to be melted. Just relax and allow me to melt it - it will disappear, it will become sand and will be gone. The water is already falling on you, Purna... just give way.

Question 6:

The question is from Anam.

Ordinarily everybody is possessive of things, because nobody possesses themselves; it is a substitute. When you don't possess yourself, you start possessing things. It gives a sort of security - at least you possess something: a big house, a big balance in the bank, a beautiful woman, a wife, a husband. children, security, respectability. You possess something, you don't possess yourself. To take your eyes away from that inner zeroness, nothingness, that emptiness, you go on filling things all around you. But it is not going to satisfy, because whatsoever you possess will never make you full inside; you will remain empty.

The idea to possess things arises because we don't possess our being. Because the being is missing, we start moving into the world of having - 'Have this, have that' but you will remain frustrated. Deep down the emptiness will be felt again and again and again. You cannot deceive; one day or other you will have to recognise the futility of it. You can possess the whole world and yet you will remain poor. Unless you possess yourself, you will remain poor. There is only one richness and that is to possess oneself, to be oneself.

So it is not only a question with you, Anam; it is with everybody: it is a very human question. Have you watched? Men are less interested in things than women - why? Because the woman has been so repressed down the centuries that she cannot even imagine possessing herself. She has been possessed like a thing; she has been completely dispossessed from her centre, hence she has become so interested in things. She continuously thinks about things: 'Have more money, have a bigger house, have a bigger car, ornaments, jewels, diamonds, this and that... go on having.' The woman seems to be almost crazy. Why? She has been completely dispossessed by man, she has been thrown off-centre, she has been turned into a thing, so the only way to feel that she is, is to have a fur coat, to have diamonds, to have gold. That is the only way she can have a little feeling that she is also somebody.

I have heard a definition: One woman talking is monologue, two women talking is a catalogue.

The catalogue is their Bible, their Koran. It is the only thing they read - THE WHOLE EARTH CATALOGUE. But why? Why has this ugly situation arisen? Because they have never been allowed to possess themselves. The man is the master and the woman is the slave, that's why. But man is also only the master for the name's sake, so he is also interested in things.

You become really human only when you start moving in the inner direction of possessing yourself.

It can happen only through meditation. Money and meditation are the two directions. If you want to possess things money; if you want to possess yourself - meditation. And if you possess yourself, money loses all meaning. I am not saying that you will renounce money, I am not saying that you will not earn money, but it loses all meaning. Then it is fun, then it is a utility; then you earn and you spend, then you are not a miser; then it is a good medium of exchange - very helpful, but nothing more. It is not your soul, it is not your god.

Ordinarily money seems to be the only god in the world. People look on money as they look on God:

they pray. In India... you will be surprised; they say that India is a religious country, but in fact you cannot find a more materialistic country anywhere. This is one of the most materialistic countries - they worship money. They have a festival, DIWALI, then they worship money - exactly, they worship.

They pile up money and worship it like God with MANTRAS, chanting, and a priest offering flowers to the money.

When you possess yourself you use money, you don't allow money to use you. So this is just indicative of your becoming a little alert. Everybody is deeply interested in things, but when you become a little alert then you recognise the fact: 'Why am I so interested in things?' A good indication, a good symbol, that you have become alert about it. Through this alertness you will start turning inwards.

Recognise the fact that you are empty... and then immediately the idea will arise 'Then what am I to do?' Go into this emptiness. It cannot be filled by any thing from the outside. If you go in, it can be filled. If you reach to your centre of being, it will be full. And that is real fullness. Then you are an emperor - outwardly you may be just a beggar. Then you are really rich, and the richness is such that nobody can take it away from you. Even death cannot separate you from your richness.

This richness you are carrying as a treasure in your being, but you have not looked there. Start looking inside, search your house. Take a small candle of meditation and go in.

Question 7:

Just one of those consistent inconsistencies of mine.

Question 8:

I will tell you a few anecdotes: The witness was being badgered by the cross-examining lawyer.

'You sure it was exactly five minutes?'

'Yes, sir.'

'I'm going to give you a test' the lawyer said, taking out a pocket watch. 'Tell me when five minutes are up.'

At exactly five minutes lapse the witness yelled 'Time's up!'

After losing the case, the lawyer, being a good sport, walked over to the witness and asked 'How could you tell the time so exactly?'

'Simple' was the answer. 'By the clock on the wall at the back of you.'

I am not looking at God because God is everywhere; there is no way to avoid him. You cannot look at anything else: God is everywhere. When I look at you, I look at God. When I look at the trees, I look at God. When I close my eyes, I look at God, because only God is. God, to me, is exactly synonymous with existence. So I cannot look for God anywhere.

There is a beautiful story in Nanak's life. He went to the Kaaba. In the night, when he was preparing his bed and was just ready to go to sleep, the priests of the Kaaba came and they said 'We have heard you are a holy man, but you seem to be stupid - you have your feet towards the Kaaba. This is insulting! Remove your feet somewhere else.'

And Nanak said 'You do it, because I don't know of any place where it would not be disrespectful.

God is everywhere; wherever I put my feet, in whatever direction, God will be there. You please do it.'

The story goes on.... Up to this point the story seems to be factual, then it takes a mythological turn, it becomes a parable. It is said that the priests tried to turn Nanak's feet in every direction, but wherever they turned his feet, there moved the Kaaba. It cannot happen; things like that don't happen, but the meaning is clear.

I cannot look anywhere without looking at God, so there is no way to look at God. You thought that it was something mystical. The mind is always hankering for mystery, for sensation, for some thrill. The mind is always creating and projecting and hankering for mysteries, and because of your created, fabricated mysteries, you are not aware of the great mystery that surrounds you.

Stop these childish games. The whole of life is mysterious; there is no need for other mysteries.

Stop playing these games, otherwise you will go on creating fictions, you will go on imagining things.

You imagine something, and if it is not proved right, then you are frustrated. If it is proved right, your ego soars high. In both ways it is dangerous. Just look, but don't look for mysteries... and the greatest mystery will be revealed to you.

Otherwise people create UFO's and a thousand and one things - Atlantis and the continent of Mu. And people go on creating and people become very involved in such things: that in the past astronauts had landed on the earth... and books like that are sold in millions. That simply shows the foolish human mind - always seeking for something miraculous. That s why magicians become MAHATMAS. If they can do a trick, which any ordinary magician can do, they become great MAHATMAS - because you are in search of some mystery. You want some mystery.

I am a non-mysterious person. There is no mystery at all. So, once and for all, let it be dropped.

Simply start looking at things as they are. Don't try to find some mystery, don't create fictions, don't be too imaginative, and I can promise you that if you stop creating mysteries, God's mystery will be revealed to you. Then everything is mysterious: the trees, the birds, the rocks, the moon, the sun, the stars... everything is mysterious. A small dewdrop is so mysterious, what else can you want? A sprouting seed is so mysterious, what else can you want? A man, a woman, a child, is so mysterious, but because of your created fictions your eyes have become dull.

It was good that you came and looked - there is nothing but a clock. And the clock is needed, because my own inner clock stopped long ago. For me time has disappeared so I have to depend:

I have to look again and again at the clock. My own sense of time has completely gone. The day your past disappears and the future, your time-sense disappears also, because the present is not part of time; the present is part of eternity.

Somebody asked Jesus 'Can you tell us what will be one of the most significant factors in your kingdom of God?' And he said 'There shall be time no longer.'

In the kingdom of God there is no time. Time is a mind-fiction. MIND IS TIME. The day your mind disappears, time disappears. Then you have to be constantly dependent on the clock outside, because in the inner world there is always just NOW nothing moves. It is always present, it is just present; it never becomes past, it never becomes future. Nothing is moving inside me. The future is not turning into the present, the present is not turning into the past. The inner clock has stopped.

Failing business had driven the textile man out of the industry and into an asylum, where his relatives came to visit him. They stood around for a while, and then, as the end of visiting hours approached, one of them asked 'What time is it?'

'Fifteen to' said the textile man.

'Fifteen to what?'

'I don't know' he replied. 'Times got so bad I had to lay off one of the hands.'

So when you have only one hand in your watch, you can only say 'Fifteen to, twenty to, thirty to...'

but to what? thirty to what? it is impossible. And in my clock, times got so bad that I had to lay off both hands; both hands have disappeared.

Once a madman offered a watch to me. He said to me 'I have a most unusual watch to offer you. It never needs any repairs or winding. It has no hands, no sweep second dial and no face.'

'But how can you tell the time?' I asked him.

'That's easy. Ask anybody.'