That explosion of bliss

Question 1:

It seems that J. Krishnamurti has finally become senile. It is time too, he is ninety years old. What he has said is absurd. Who was appointed before me? Was Gautam Buddha an appointed master?

Was Moses an appointed master? Was Jesus appointed by somebody? There are things which blossom on their own. It is not a government bureaucracy, where you are appointed. And if a master is appointed by somebody else, he can be dis-appointed any moment. Nobody can dis-appoint me.

It is not a criticism of me, it is a criticism of himself. He is the only man in the whole history of humanity who was appointed by others as a world teacher. And it is very strange - the people who appointed him as a world teacher were themselves ignorant. They were waiting for the world teacher to make them awake. These sleeping and snoring Theosophists appointed J. Krishnamurti as the world teacher.

It is good that he refused. He refused the organization, he refused the idea of being a world teacher.

But his refusal seems only superficial, he has remained a teacher all his life. What has he been doing for almost a century? - teaching. But where is the appointment order?

To know oneself is not something that anybody else can do for you. And more particularly, how can sleeping people help the one who is awake? They are dreaming; in their sleep they can only dream.

Do you expect these sleeping people to appoint the awakened one? That would be hilarious.

Yes, nobody has appointed me. On that point he is not absolutely wrong. But there is another point also, which is a little delicate. I say nobody has appointed me, including myself. I am not a "self-appointed master." Whenever there is a master, he is recognized, not appointed.

When the rose flowers, you don't make it flower, but you can recognize the fragrance. Even in your sleep you can feel that the night is over and the sun has arisen. You are just hanging between sleep and waking. You may take time to wake up, but somewhere deep down in you, you know it is time to wake up.

I am not appointed by anybody - to be appointed is an insult. And I am not appointed by myself, because what is the need? - I know it.

The word "master" in the world of spirituality has a totally different meaning. It is not the same as a schoolmaster. A master in the spiritual sense is one who has mastery over himself, who does not function unconsciously, whose every act - even the smallest gesture - is conscious, alert. He may not have a single disciple - it doesn't matter.

Do you see the point? The word "master" creates the idea of the disciple, the follower. How can there be a master without a disciple, a follower? But in the spiritual sense of the word "master" means mastery of oneself. It has no relationship with any following; it does not depend on the crowd. A master can be just alone.

I had started alone, and then slowly people started joining my caravan. I was really surprised - I am still surprised. Surprised, because how did these people recognize the fragrance, the flowering of self-mastery? They are not awake, but one thing is certain: they are not asleep either. Just the early morning hours.... You know, everybody knows, that you are awake and still pretending to sleep. You would have loved to sleep, but what to do?

I have never said that I am a master. It is something others have to understand. I am not like Jesus who goes on proclaiming himself to be the messenger of God, the only begotten son of God, and all that crap. Of course, it is Christian crap. I am not like Mohammed, who says "I am the messenger of God, and the last messenger. After me there is going to be no change in the message." Did God die fourteen hundred years ago, when Mohammed declared, "I am the last prophet"?

I do not claim anything, and I am criticized for things which I have never claimed. I am not a prophet, I am not a messiah, I am not a messenger from any God - because there is no God. Yes, I am an alert, conscious, ordinary man.

The whole beauty is that I have not proclaimed anything, and still you have heard it. I have not said it, and you have understood it. I have not knocked on your doors, I have not tried to convince you about anything. I have never bothered about any respectability. I have just lived in my own way, according to my own consciousness.

I don't claim that you are my followers. All followers are blind - only the blind need to follow. Without any claim on my side, millions of people around the world have come closer and closer to me. It is a miracle.

I don't count Jesus as a man of miracles. Whatever are called his miracles are invented by the Christians. Secondly, even if he had done those miracles, they are third-rate. Making bread out of stones.... If this is true, there should not have been any Ethiopia. Half of the world would not be dying. If he can change a stone into bread, then why not change the whole Himalayas into a big bread? The secret is the same.

He turns water into wine. And I am always amazed - from Christian pulpits this is declared to be a great miracle. This is a crime! What about Jesus turning water into hashish, marijuana, LSD? He would be behind bars! Do you think wine is not of the same category? In fact, it is worse. LSD is far superior and less harmful.

Yes, if he had turned wine into water, I would call it a miracle, and not illegal either. But I say to you, he has not done any of these things, because if he had done these things - healing the people who are sick, making the blind see, the lame walk, the dead come back to life again - just average intelligence is needed to see it: if a man had done all these things, do you think the Jews would have asked that he be crucified?

If a man had done the miracle of raising the dead Lazarus back to life, the whole of Judea would have fallen at his feet. That seems to be absolutely natural. You can think yourself - if you see somebody raising dead people to life, what are you going to do, crucify this man?

And how can you crucify a man who raises dead people to life? You may have crucified him, but the man could have turned the crucifixion into anything he wanted. The cross may have become a golden throne. If stones can become bread, water can become wine, what is so impossible? The cross becomes a golden throne.... That did not happen. Jesus could not save himself.

I do not claim anything. I am just like you. But what can I do? If you feel some fragrance arising out of my being, and you start moving towards me from faraway lands - in spite of all the difficulties - then I must say you are doing miracles. I am only a witness to what is happening.

It is time for J. Krishnamurti to shut up completely.

Question 2:

Jesus! I have never said that my books of the past are not important! But you may have heard that.

What I had said is that to me truth is not something unchanging. Anything unchanging is dead.

Truth is alive, breathing, moving. So when I am saying something to you now, don't be bothered about the past - what I said twenty years before. And I say to you, if I am still here tomorrow, the truth will have become more potent, deeper, higher. My books of the past are not unimportant.

I am just like a tree. When it comes to blossom, do you think now the roots are unimportant, the trunk is no longer needed, the leaves are unnecessary, because the tree has blossomed, the flowers have come? No, you don't say that. You know perfectly well that those flowers are intrinsically connected with the hidden roots in the earth. It is all one process. The flowers cannot exist without the leaves, without the branches, without the trunk, without the roots. But when flowers are there, don't be bothered to compare them with the roots. Then you will find great contradictions, inconsistencies.

There are. What is consistent between the roots and the flower? What is consistent between the branches and the leaves and the flower? The leaves may be green and the flower is red - so contradictory, so inconsistent! The roots are ugly, the flower is so beautiful - what is consistent? But when the flowers are there, you know perfectly well that those roots underground are the base. The trunk, the branches are moving - a movement towards the flowers, the leaves. They all help the flower.

I have lived in many places, but I don't own any house. I am a houseless wanderer. I have always been a guest of somebody. But wherever I have been, I have created beautiful gardens.

In one place the land was big. It was impossible for just me alone to make the whole land green.

I searched for a gardener, the best - because less than that does not satisfy me. This gardener was receiving awards every year, because every year there was a competition to see who brings the biggest flowers, the most beautiful. From the whole province people were participating, but this old man, a poor gardener, had been getting the first prize for years. I asked him, "Would you love to be with me and be my gardener?"

He had never lived in such a big bungalow - he was a poor man. He was very happy, he had never had such a big piece of land. And I said, "All the facilities will be provided, you don't be worried.

Whatever salary you want, you just say. It is up to you to decide."

A poor man, he said, "Thirty rupees per month would be enough."

I said, "No. Thirty rupees for a man who creates so much beauty? Sixty will be okay." He could not believe me, he thought I was mad - and perhaps he was right.

Sixty rupees in those days was a great salary; the headmaster of a school or the head clerk of a big government office was getting it. And I was alone in the big bungalow. I said, "You take as many rooms of this bungalow as you want - free of charge. I am a guest, I don't pay anything; you are my guest, there is no problem. And every facility that you need for the garden will be provided. Go and find out, purchase all beautiful plants, flowers, trees, and make this barren land...."

It had remained barren for many years, because somehow the rumor spread that the house was haunted. The owner could not sell it. Who is going to purchase a haunted house? The owner was very nervous when he offered it to me - he loved me. And I said, "That's perfectly... that is a beautiful building" - it was Victorian architecture - "I would love it."

He thought perhaps I didn't know that the house was haunted. He said, "But one thing I have to say to you - I don't want to keep you in the dark - the house has been empty for years, and nobody purchases it, nobody rents it, because the whole city know the house is haunted."

I said, "That's great! In such a big house, to live alone does not feel good. If a few ghosts are there, it will be good company."

The gardener brought all kinds of plants and flowers, and he started working, because in the next competition he had to bring the greatest rose flowers. But what did he do? On each rosebush he went on cutting the buds. He would leave only one bud and cut all the other buds.

When I came to know of it, I said, "What are you doing?"

He said, "This is the only way to bring the biggest flowers, because then all the juices of the tree start moving into one flower to make it blossom. If there are many flowers, then the juices are divided."

I said, "You forget about your annual exhibition. From now onwards I will give you the award for not cutting a single bud! It is not important that the rose should be big, it is enough that it is a rose. And you are being murderous."

I wanted to make it clear to you that the roses are there, but the juice is flowing from the roots.

Whatever I have said in these thirty years - and I have been speaking continuously, except for those few years when I was silent - every single word is important, because they are all interconnected.

You may find contradictions, you may find inconsistencies. Don't be afraid; life is full of contradictions, full of inconsistencies. And I don't know any other god than life itself.

I have never said that my books of the past are not important. But this goes on happening: I say one thing, you hear something else. I have said only that what I am saying now is the highest flower on the that I have been growing for thirty years. So if you have to decide, decide on this moment's statement, and don't be bothered about inconsistencies, contradictions.

And I have also said, remember this for tomorrow also. Tomorrow this day will be old, gone. Newer flowers will be blossoming. Be always in the present, and you will be always right. And don't be afraid when tomorrow you find an even better thing. Then don't cling to the yesterday. It was beautiful, but it was beautiful yesterday.

It makes a very important implication clear. Why do people worship dead saints, prophets, messiahs? They are very convenient; because they are dead you can rest assured that they are not going to change their statements. While they are alive you are always trembling - the man may say something else tomorrow.

It is your incapacity to change, incapacity to remain a flow, that makes you worship Jesus Christ when I am here! But Jesus Christ is convenient - you can be certain about him. Not only that, you can read whatsoever you want to read in his statements; he is not going to say to you, "This is not what I said."

All these theologians of different religions around the world, what are they doing? They are making you more and more comfortable with the religion you are addicted to. Yes, I use the word "addiction,"

because all religions are nothing but drugs. The theologians go on polishing, making the statements more suitable to you. This you cannot expect here.

I don't say anything considering you, I say it because it is true! If it hurts you, I am helpless. If it does not suit you, disturbs you, it is your problem; I have nothing to do with it. My concern is to remain flowing with existence, life, truth. And whatever existence wants to speak through me, I will speak.

I never hesitate to contradict myself, because who am I to interfere? It was a life force that said that, the same life force is saying this. There must be some inner connection which you cannot see.

My books of the past are important, because they will be a test for you - whether you can grow with me or you have stopped long ago.

It happened... a beautiful man, George Gurdjieff, had a great disciple, P.D. Ouspensky. Nobody knew about Gurdjieff, but the whole world know about Ouspensky, because Ouspensky was one of the best mathematicians the world has ever known. Gurdjieff was a Caucasian... who cares about the Caucasus? He was uneducated, but a tremendous man, really terrific.

Ouspensky was in search of truth. He roamed around the world, he was in India. He was searching for someone in whose eyes he could see that the man knows. He was not looking for beautiful words, theorems - all that he himself was capable of doing. And he searched all over India and Tibet and could not find a man who was a living truth. He found great scholars, he found famous religious leaders, but that was not his search.

Ouspensky was really an authentic seeker. He was searching for a man who was an embodiment of truth, who is not repeating words of some sages who died thousands of years ago, a man who could say, "This is so." Whether religious scriptures agree with it or not does not matter. If they agree, good for them; if they don't agree, they are wrong. And strangely enough, he found Gurdjieff in the same town, in the same cafe where he used to go every day after his university classes. He found him in Moscow. Life is very mysterious.

Gurdjieff was just sitting there. And the moment Ouspensky entered and looked at the man - just like a flash, he knew, "This is the man I have been searching here was that light, there was on that face something unknown, mysterious. He fell in deep love with Gurdjieff. But Gurdjieff was just as strange a man as I am. He was not an ordinary scholar; he was not talking about what others have discovered, he was saying only that which he had come to know.

Ouspensky lived with Gurdjieff for many years. Then the first world war came, and Gurdjieff had to escape from Russia; Ouspensky also had to escape. Ouspensky was welcome anywhere, any university would be proud of having him.

He had written a book which has become almost the most important book about not only mathematics, but about life and all its problems. He had written a book called TERTIUM ORGANUM - the third canon of knowledge. And in the beginning of the book he writes that the first organum was written by Aristotle. Aristotle has a book named ORGANUM - knowledge, wisdom. And the second book was written by Bacon, NOVUM ORGANUM - the new wisdom. Both are very significant persons in the history of thought. Aristotle is the father of all the logic that the West knows, and Bacon is the father of all the sciences that have developed in the West.

Ouspensky said, "I am writing TERTIUM ORGANUM, the third canon of wisdom, and I declare that the third canon existed even before the first." And it was not out of any egoism - I have gone through all the three canons - it was a simple statement of fact. Ouspensky has transcended Aristotle and Bacon both. The book caused a great stir in the whole world. London University invited him, because Russia was no longer a safe place; the first world war and the communist revolution were going on together.

Gurdjieff was hiding in a very faraway part of Russia, Tiflis. It was almost another planet from London. And he asked Ouspensky to drop everything and come back to Tiflis. Ouspensky loved the man so much, he dropped his job, he dropped his work. He had opened a school in which he was teaching Gurdjieff's message. He closed the school and went into a dangerous country where life was not safe. He arrived in Tiflis, and the moment he entered Gurdjieff's room, Gurdjieff said, "Good, you have arrived. Now go back and resume your work."

This was too much. Even Ouspensky, a man of such integrity, could not stand it. But Gurdjieff's methods, devices were such. This was a moment of test, a test of trust. Ouspensky failed in that moment. He thought Gurdjieff was simply insane: "I wasted everything that I had arranged, traveled in a country where any moment I could have been killed - and he does not even say, 'Sit down, rest.'

He says, 'Good that you have come. Now just go back and resume your work.'"

He went back. Gurdjieff had impressed him immensely, so what did he do? He dropped Gurdjieff, but he could not drop the Gurdjieff with whom he had lived for years, or his teachings. A strange phenomenon happened. For him Gurdjieff was divided into two parts. He continued to teach only that part of Gurdjieff that was in tune with his logical mind. Beyond that, Gurdjieff was his enemy.

Gurdjieff lived long, longer than Ouspensky. Ouspensky continued to teach Gurdjieff's teachings, but those were the old teachings up to the point where Ouspensky dropped out of the fold of Gurdjieff.

It is difficult to be with a living message, because the message goes on moving in tune with existence. It does not bother about you. You have to keep yourself running with the message, you have to forget all about what was said in the past. The new, the latest, is always the right. And it does not mean that what has preceded it was not important. Without it this new phenomenon would not have been there at all.

In my thirty years' life of talking from my heart to people, thousands have come and gone. They still love me, but only up to the point when they departed. After that they say, "Something has gone wrong."

Just the other day I heard about Amitabh - one of my sannyasins, very much loved and respected by the commune. He just dropped sannyas a few months ago and he is telling people, "Bhagwan was right up to the moment I left. Now he has fallen from his enlightenment." Great idea! Nobody has ever heard that anybody can fall from enlightenment. Amitabh has all the credit for finding something new.

But it is absolutely idiotic - there is no way to fall from enlightenment. Once you have known, there is no way to become ignorant again. It is very difficult from ignorance to move towards wisdom. It is very difficult - but only difficult, not impossible. To come back down from wisdom to ignorance is impossible. It is just not the law of life.

People, thousands of people, have walked along with me, but they go only so far and stop. They were not coming along with me; they were really finding nourishment for their own rubbish, knowledge.

The moment they found that I was saying something that went against their knowledge, their religion, their party line, their ideology, they stopped. They departed.

If you ask them, they will say, "Yes, there was a time when Bhagwan was right. He is no longer right."

But this is natural. Only a person who has immense capacity to change, to go on and on, can find the truth of life. And once you have found it there is no way to lose it, because you find it in the very innermost being of yourself. You are it! How can you drop it somewhere? How can you forget about it?

But the disciple who stops at a certain point certainly has to console himself, that "Up to this point Bhagwan was right. After that, he has gone wrong." He does not know that right is not a static thing, it is a growing phenomenon.

You are very comfortable with Jesus - and he was born a Jew, he lived as a Jew, he died as a Jew.

He never heard the word "Christian." He was unaware even of the word "Christ," because the word "Christ" is Greek. He knew only one language, Aramaic; he was not even acquainted with Hebrew.

Aramaic was a local language of ordinary people; Hebrew was the language of the priests, of the high-class people. Aramaic is just a common form of Hebrew. In Hebrew and Aramaic there is no word like "Christ," the word is "messiah."

His own people, the Jews, could not accept Jesus as a messiah, because he was saying things that were disturbing them. His common way of talking was, "It has been told to you in the past, an eye for an eye. But I say unto you, if somebody slaps you on one cheek, give him the other cheek also."

He was contradicting the old prophets. This was not acceptable to his people.

Jesus alive was crucified. Dead, he has the biggest following in the world. This is a miracle. When he was living, nobody wanted to be associated with him. Dead, even those who are not Christians, like Mahatma Gandhi, Hazrat Mohammed - one is a Hindu, another is a Mohammedan - are ready to accept him as a prophet. It is easier now. He has stopped; you can manage to go up to the stoppage.

With me you will find it difficult - until I die. And don't hope that I am going to die soon. I am going to disturb you as much as possible. If you can manage to live with a living message, and if you have the guts to go on changing with the living message, you are blessed. Many will come around me, but only a few will remain. Yes, after my death many more will come, and everybody will remain!

Your mind is somehow very stubborn about changing, because change brings difficulties. Change brings new things, and you have to begin again and again and again. But be courageous. If you are not courageous you are already dead. Just to go on breathing is not enough to be alive. I define life as a constant change, and the capacity to go with it wherever it leads you. If you have that courage, truth is not far away. Only the courage is missing.

You are asking me, that I have said that my old books are not important.... You want to divide me in two parts - my old books, and my present message to you - so that you can choose. I will not allow you such a convenient way.

My old books are immensely important. Unless you understand them, you will not be able to understand me. But remember, it is a constant flow and change, so don't be bothered with inconsistencies, contradictions.

If you go on, soon you will be able to find the truth. And once the truth is revealed, all contradictions and inconsistencies dissolve. Then you can see, crystal-clear, that it is a single message from the roots to the flower. It is a single organism.

Question 3:

I do not care what the Supreme Court decides. This is the only legal city in the whole world. There is no crime here, no rape, no theft, no murder. Even in the middle of the night any woman can go anywhere in the darkness without any fear. It is not a question - whether this city is legal or not.

I have known many cities. People are living there side by side, but they are not together. Those cities are just like a crowd, not a living organism.

This city is a totally new phenomenon. It is a living organism. People are not just a crowd here; they have chosen to be part, a living part of the whole. There are no families in this city, this whole city is a family! You cannot find this phenomenon anywhere else. Families are small units keeping themselves separate from other families, fighting with their neighbors - you know.

Jesus had two things to say: "Love your enemy as you love yourself." That is not great, many have said it, but the second thing is really great. He said, "Love your neighbor just as you love yourself."

And that is very difficult to do. Have you ever heard of neighbors loving each other? Not only ordinary neighbors, but great leaders, religious masters - they too cannot stand the neighbor.

I have heard.... A rabbi and a Christian bishop lived in one neighborhood. Their houses were opposite each other, and they were continuously hating, being jealous, competing about everything.

The bishop purchased a Buick car; that almost caused a heart attack in the rabbi. In the morning the bishop was pouring water on the Buick. The rabbi could not contain himself. He asked, "What are you doing?"

The bishop said, "I am doing a baptism. The car is being transformed into a Christian car. This was more trouble. The rabbi could not sleep. Somehow he managed, and the next day purchased a Cadillac. Now it was the turn of the bishop to get a heart attack.

And in the morning the rabbi started to cut the exhaust pipe with big garden scissors. The bishop could not believe what was going on. He said, "What is the matter? What are you doing?"

The rabbi said, "I am doing a circumcision - now the car is really Jewish."

This is the only place where you will find people from all over the world - different races, different colors, different languages - becoming one family. We don't have any neighbor, so we don't need Jesus' advice to love your neighbor - we don't have any.

But it is good that the Supreme Court proved itself, proved that there is still hope of democracy in America, that there is a possibility of some fairness. The Supreme Court's decision is very decisive and very historic in the sense that against all the bigots, against all the politicians, against all the pressures, they still remained true to the law. The decision must rejoice you, for the simple reason that it shows we are not in the Soviet Union.

America should think over this decision, and try to remain democratic whatsoever the consequences, because this is the only country that holds any hope for humanity.

Rajneeshpuram was legal - it would have remained legal even without the decision of the Supreme Court. We were going to fight to the very end, because it is not only a question of a small commune; it is a question of the very spirituality of this nation.

Politicians are nothing but pollution. As a democracy becomes purer and purer, more and more does the pressure of the politicians become insignificant. Democracy comes to its uttermost flowering when politicians disappear completely.

Our fight will continue, because those cunning politicians who were trying to destroy this city - just because we want to live in our own way, and we want to think in our own way, and we want not to be led by those idiots - they will go on trying other ways to harass you. But nobody can harass my people, because to harass somebody two parties are needed: one who harasses and one who becomes harassed. We are not going to become harassed. We have nothing to lose, nothing to fear - who fears dead people? Their cities are nothing but cemeteries, legal cemeteries!

I must thank the Supreme Court on behalf of all of you, that it has saved so many innocent people from getting utterly disappointed.

Now we can grow - because in my vision, I have always seen the commune consisting of at least going to make this place, which was just a desert, green, full of rejoicings, songs and dances. I want Rajneeshpuram to become the Garden of Eden.

You will see God one day - if there is any God - knocking on your doors: "Please let me come in!"

Question 4:

You!

Next question.

Question 5:

I have never come across one, because it is a contradiction. A good sannyasin - what do you mean?

Can there be a bad sannyasin too? To be a sannyasin is to be goodness itself.

Okay.

Question 6:

Yes, enlightenment means choicelessness - but you are not enlightened yet. For me there is no choice. If the third world war comes, I will be just the same as I am. If the whole world is destroyed, it won't change anything in me - neither my bliss, nor my peace, nor my love.

But for you.... Because you are not enlightened, I have been talking against wars, against superstitions, against stupidities. I am not speaking to myself - do you think I am crazy? - I am talking to you. And for you there is at every step a choice. Till you come to the moment of enlightenment and choicelessness, you will have to choose; before that there is no other way.

It is just as a blind man carries a stick in his hand, groping for his way. But if his eyes are cured, will he still grope with the stick? He will throw the stick away.

Whatever I am saying to you is just giving you a stick till you are ready to open your eyes. Then, throw the stick. Then there is nothing good, nothing bad. Then whatever the enlightened person does is right. And there is no question of choice, because he can see. He does not choose. Choice implies thinking. He does not think, he simply sees his way and moves on it.

My work is arduous. I have to speak from a point to you, who are almost on another planet; the distance is vast. Remove the distance. Of course I am not going to move close to you. The thirsty goes to the well, not vice versa.

I am here, available. If you are thirsty, move closer to me. And soon you will know that light, that insight, that explosion of bliss in which there is no choice.

Enlightenment is choicelessness. But don't misunderstand me. Before that, you will have to move very cautiously, choosing the right against the wrong, choosing the truer so that you can reach to the ultimate truth.