With me, nobody is going to be a loser

Fri, 15 July 1977 00:00:00 GMT
Book Title:
Far Beyond the Stars
Chapter #:
pm in Chuang Tzu Auditorium
Archive Code:
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[A sannyasin, returning to the West, says: I'd just like to ask you about sannyas for my children. I have two children, six and eight, and they're probably going to come back with me in January for about six months.

I have some doubts about sannyas, that it seems to be another form of baptism to put on them.

Could you say something?]

No need to make them sannyasins just now; that will be a baptism and that is not good, mm? Let them come, let them feel. If they decide on their own, that's good; don't decide for them. Anything decided by somebody else is ugly; it is a kind of imprisonment, an indoctrination.

So whether it is christian or hindu or mohammedan doesn't matter. It can be my sannyas - it doesn't matter. If it is enforced by somebody else, with good wishes; that is not the point; that is not doubted at all.... When you want your children to be sannyasins you want it with good wishes - you feel that will be a blessing for them, but that is your feeling - and even if it is right, it is wrong to impose it on them... unless they decide on their own. So all that we can do for children is to just bring them into the situation where they can feel.

And children are very perceptive... more perceptive than they will ever be again. Their eyes are more clear, they can see truth more easily than grown-up people because grown-up people have learned many things; the grown-ups naturally are conditioned more. Their mirror is no more a mirror:

it has many clouds around it and much dust has gathered.

So if you feel that something good is happening anywhere and you would like to share it with your children, bring the children to the situation and help them to be there, that's all.

Never for a single moment enforce anything... don't even persuade. Don't even utter a single word about sannyas - let them come. They will be able to see, and if they feel, that's good; then they have the right to move into it.

There is another kind of indoctrination which is anti - you can prevent them: when they want to do something, you prevent them; that too is the same. If the son of a mohammedan wants to become christian he will be prevented. That is in a negative way but again you are forcing something.

If you love the child you love the child's freedom too. And never for a single moment think 'How can children think?' 'How can they decide for themselves?' That is one of the oldest pieces of nonsense prevalent in the world - that people think 'How can the children think for themselves? We have to think for them!'

If they cannot think for themselves then nobody else can... and I am not saying that they will always think rightly. Freedom to think implies freedom to go wrong; that's part of freedom. If you always insist for the right then you don't give the freedom at all. If you say only right should be done, then you decide what is right and you decide what is wrong and then again the freedom is crippled.

Freedom means to do anything they want to.

So bring them here, let them feel, and if they start feeling something then it is good. Mm? the day they want to take sannyas don't even come with them - let them come alone!

[A new sannyasin says: I want to be near you and I'm fighting it. I'm a big fighter!

I allow all kinds of fighters around here chuckles Osho. Come and have a good fight with me. The more you fight, the sooner you will be defeated!]

[A sannyasin says: I have so many problems with my mind in every meditation - I can't stop it!]

I understand. Start doing one thing: every day, for one hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon, sit and say whatsoever comes in the mind, loudly, mm? so that not only do you think it, you hear it. Whatsoever it is - if nonsense comes, let it: you are not to edit it and you are not to make it beautiful because it is not meant to be a performance; it has to be that which is inside. If a few words come - and they will - if the sentence is not even complete and the words stop, then stop; don't complete it. Then if something else comes, say that. But whatsoever comes, just watch it, articulate it, say it... whatsoever it is!

You have that garbage in the mind, it has to be thrown. You don't throw it so it goes on revolving inside. Nothing is a problem; you are creating a problem.

People go on keeping that garbage, they don't throw it. It is as if you are accumulating garbage in your house and you don't throw it outside so it stinks and when it becomes too much you are disturbed. Wherever you move it is always there and everywhere you come across it. It has to be thrown!

The mind creates a certain garbage just as the body does - it is part of life. You eat something: a part of it is digested - becomes your blood, your bones, your flesh, your marrow - but ninety percent of it is just rubbish that has to be thrown out. If you don't throw it you will accumulate it in your stomach and then you will be creating poison for your body. That's what happens when somebody is too constipated, he starts creating toxins in the body; then the poison will circulate in the blood.

The same food that was going to be nourishment will become a deathly poison... the same food! So one has to go on throwing it out.

The mind functions in exactly the same way on a subtle plane. You hear somebody talk, you are hearing me talk, you read a book, you are in the market, you listen to people, you see a movie, you listen to the radio, you read the newspaper, all this is going in. Part of it will be digested - a very small part of it is worth digesting; the remaining - what will you do with it? It will go on revolving.

That's why you know that the content is not important: the content is not important. When somebody is constipated it is not that he is holding gold in his stomach - it is just rubbish, excreta. And that's what goes on moving in the mind: excreta.

One has to understand the process: just as you cleanse your body, you cleanse your intestines, just as everyday you throw the excreta out of the bodY and that keeps you healthy, in the same way mind needs tO be cleansed every day. So this will help you - one hour in the morning, one hour in the afternoon.

First many thoughts will come, mm? After a few days you will see thoughts are not coming but only fragmentary words... not even thoughts but just words. Then by and by you will start feeling that even words are no more coming but sounds - gibberish. When gibberish starts coming, come back; then you have touched the right level. Now thoughts are not coming, words are not coming, gibberish is coming. That means that much is cleaned and then meditation will be easy.

This you have to continue at least for six months - this will be your meditation - and you will be completely freed.

[A sannyasin says that he was waiting for discourse one morning and felt strange. The next thing he knew he was lying in someone's room and they said he had had an epileptic fit.

Osho checks his energy.]

No, it was not an epileptic fit at all, it has nothing to do with epilepsy....

Nothing to be worried about mm? It was not epileptic at all, but it can appear to other people from the outside like epilepsy, because from the outside sometimes a satori looks like epilepsy; from the outside the symptoms are almost the same.

Even up to now doctors suspect that Ramakrishna used to have epileptic fits. Even about Ramakrishna they suspected epilepsy because from the outside the symptoms are almost the same.

It is a particular kind of satori - what we call in India 'bhaw samadhi'; it is an emotional satori .

There are two types of satoris - one that happens through the intellect.... Then one remains alert - not only alert: one becomes tremendously alert. That's what happened in zen satoris. The whole approach is through the intellect - through the koan, the intellectual puzzle and thinking and meditation. They are all bringing a focal point where the mind comes to the most intense of tensions, beyond which there is no more to go. It comes like a peak, like a sexual peak, and then from there everything explodes. But the person remains very very conscious - in fact more conscious than ever. It is a flash of consciousness - that is zen satori. But they are not aware of another kind of satori, because zen is half of the path... what in India we call 'gyana yoga' - the path of knowing; zen is that.

There is another path - the other half, the other aspect of reality - 'bhakta yoga', the path of devotion.

On the path of devotion, when a satori happens it happens through the heart not through the intellect.

It happens through the emotions, and when it happens through the emotions one goes unconscious - it is a flash of unconsciousness. Both are satoris - one happens from the head centre, another happens from the heart centre - but this satori is not so much known in the West.

And you are a devotee, you have a very very vibrant heart. So coming from the Himalayas you may have gathered it and then here, close to me, it came to a peak and you went flat. But it was perfectly good, mm? - it has nothing to do with epilepsy. If it happens again, tell people who are around you not to be worried, mm ?

It can happen again sometime, mm? so just keep a small card as diabetic people do - just a small card saying:

This is a bhaw samadhi. Please don't think it is an epileptic fit and don't treat me in any way. Just let me rest.

[The sannyasin says: It felt very very strange for quite a long time after... I didn't know where I was.

I was very vulnerable too.]

Mm mm. It is strange... it is strange. But it has been a good, beautiful experience... very valuable.

Next time it will take you deeper and next time after it you will not feel so strange, you will feel very grounded and very rooted.

This time you became puzzled as to what it was. When you came back and people told you it was epilepsy, you became disturbed - the interpretation became a disturbance; it is not. Good!

[The Enlightenment Intensive group is present. A group member asks Osho: Did I miss? Osho replies, no, not at all! With me, nobody is going to miss. It is going to happen sooner or later - it is only a question of time. With me, nobody is going to be a loser!]

[Another group member says: During the group I found out that I was really afraid of death and I really understood the energy.... Now I have lost this understanding.

Osho checks his energy.]

Good! It was a real glimpse but just a glimpse. It was good to begin with. More glimpses will be needed; then it will become your insight.

Just like lightning it happened, for a moment it was there, but that's how it happens for the first time; one should not hope for more. If even for a single moment you have seen your fear and your death it is of tremendous importance. More glimpses will be coming soon so when it happens next time accept it.

Everybody is afraid of death; it is a basic fear. It is not that one is a coward - it is basic to life. It is life-protective: it is a strategy to protect life. Accept it, and if you accept it you will be able to go deep into it.

The day the glimpse becomes an insight, the fear disappears, because then it is revealed that life and death are one and the same thing. They are not two but two aspects of the same coin - not opposites but complementaries....

[Another participant says since the group she's had the feeling that she doesn't understand what people are trying to say when they talk to her. It just seems like a foreign language and makes her feel confused....

Yes, after this group it can happen, but that's a good sign, mm? - that means the gestalt of your mind has started changing. Nothing to be worried about.

The first thing: when people are saying things they may not be saying anything! They may not have anything to say: they may simply be hiding the fact that they have nothing to say through words. So it is not necessarily that there is some meaning... very rarely. Out of one hundred people you will find one person, and out of a hundred of his sentences you will find only one sentence which really has any meaning.

So after a group it can sometimes happen: you start seeing into things so you will feel that there is no meaning - why is this man talking? You understand the words of course, you know the language, but there is nothing, no content in it: he is just throwing empty containers at you. What does he mean?

And then one becomes disturbed - maybe something is wrong with you? He must mean something when he is saying something. Not necessarily... people go on talking, meaning nothing! If you insist on knowing their meaning they will be puzzled and embarrassed, they will not be able to figure out what they are really wanting to convey to you.

Man lives in such a madness that all conversations are just called conversations - there is no conversation going on. One person throws his garbage at the other, then the other throws his garbage back on him. That is a mutual arrangement - you empty me, I will empty you - and both feel good.

That's why sometimes when somebody does not give you any chance to empty, you feel bored, mm?

he becomes a little taxing. He goes on throwing his garbage and he doesn't give you any chance to throw yours; you feel bored. Boredom means: please give me a little chance too.

It may be a beautiful insight - don't be afraid of it. Just watch, look into it. And after intensive enlightenment it can happen. This is a kind of disorientation with the old habit, with the old idea that when somebody is saying something he must mean something. That is just not true.

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