The beginning of a new phase

The first question:

Question 1:

Nirgun, yes, it is true: in the name of aesthetics, there is much garbage. But when I use the word 'aesthetics' I don't mean the garbage collected in the museums and art galleries.

When I use the word 'aesthetics' I mean a quality in you. It has nothing to do with objects - paintings, music, poetry - it has something to do with a quality in your being, a sensitivity, a love for beauty, a sensitivity for the texture and taste of things, for the eternal dance that goes on all around, an awareness of it, a silence to hear this cuckoo calling from the distance....

It is not garbage: it is the very core of existence.

But I can understand that you must be getting bored with the so-called classical music and paintings collected in the art galleries. And you must be a little bit puzzled why people go on talking so much about all this nonsense.

Aesthetics is just an artistic approach towards life, a poetic vision. Seeing colors so totally that each tree becomes a painting, that each cloud brings the presence of God, that colors are more colorful, that you don't go on ignoring the radiance of things, that you remain alert, aware, loving, that you remain receptive, welcoming, open. That's what I mean by the aesthetic attitude, the aesthetic approach.

Music has to be in your heart, your very being has to be musical, it has to become a harmony. A man can exist as a chaos or as a cosmos. Music is the way from chaos to cosmos. A man can exist as a disorder, a discord, just noise, a market place, or a man can exist as a temple, a sacred silence, where celestial music is heard on its own, uncreated music is heard on its own.

The Zen people call it the sound of one hand clapping. In India, for centuries mystics have been talking about anahat nad - the unstruck sound. It is there in your very being; you need not go anywhere to listen to it. It is the ancientmost music, and the latest too.

It is both the oldest and the newest. And it is the music of your own being, the hum of your own existence. And if you can't hear it, you are deaf.

And there is no way, Nirgun, to bypass it. Museums you can bypass, art galleries you can bypass - in fact, you should bypass them. You need not be worried about art and art criticism - forget all about it. But you have to become an artist of life itself.

I say Buddha is a poet, although he never composed a single poem. Still I insist that he is one of the greatest poets who has ever lived. He was not a Shakespeare, a Milton, a Kalidas, a Rabindranath - no, not at all. But still I say: Shakespeare, Milton, Kalidas, Rabindranath, are nothing compared to his poetry. His life was his poetry - the way he walked, the way he looked at things....

Just the other night I came across one of the most beautiful statements of Saint Teresa of Avila. She says: All that you need is to look. Her whole message is contained in this simple statement: All that you need is to look. The capacity to look - and you will find God. The capacity to hear - and you will find his music. The capacity to touch - and every texture becomes his texture. Touch the rock and you find God.

It is not a question of objects of art: it is a question of an inner approach, a vision - of seeing things artistically. And, Nirgun, you have that quality! In fact, because of that quality you were bored by classical music and you were bored by galleries - because in an unconscious way, in a groping way, you feel something far superior inside you. But you are not yet fully aware of it.

Bypass the art galleries and you will not be losing anything. But you cannot bypass the aesthetic layer of your being: you have to go through it. Otherwise you will always remain impoverished; something will be missing, something of immense value. Your enlightenment will never be total. A part of your being will remain unenlightened; a corner of your soul will remain dark - and that corner will remain heavy on you. One has to become totally enlightened. Nothing should be bypassed, no shortcuts are to be invented. One has to move very naturally through all the layers, because all those layers are opportunities to grow.

Remember it: whenever I use the words 'music' or 'poetry' or 'painting' or 'sculpture', I have my own meaning.

When Helen Keller, the blind woman, came to India, she visited Jawaharlal Nehru. She was blind, deaf. She touched Nehru's face; with both her hands she felt Nehru's face, and she was immensely delighted. She expressed her great joy. She stated, "I have felt the same quality in Nehru's face as I felt when I touched beautiful Roman statues - the same coolness and the same proportion and the same form."

Now this woman has a heart of a sculptor - blind, deaf, but she has the genius of a great artist. Because she was deaf and blind, she had to find new ways to feel life. And sometimes curses prove blessings. She would touch water, she would feel its coolness, its flow, its life, its vibe. You will never feel it, because you can see the water; you can say, "What is there?" Because she could not see, she could only feel the texture of a rock...you can see and you will miss - you will not feel the texture of it.

Sometimes it is tremendously significant to close your eyes and just touch the rock, and feel as if you are blind and you have only hands and you have to use the hands as your eyes. And you will be surprised - you are in for a surprise. For the first time you will see that the texture has its own dimension.

Because she had no eyes and no ears, her sense of smell was just at the optimum. She could feel the perfume of things, of people. She could discriminate between one tree and another tree just by the fragrance of it. She could even distinguish persons just by their smell.

Now she is as aesthetic as any Picasso, Dali, Van Gogh - or even more so.

Nirgun, the aesthetic garbage is certainly there, because whatsoever man creates in his unconsciousness is bound to be garbage. The paintings of Picasso represent the mind of Picasso. Now this man seems to be insane somewhere deep down. In fact, his paintings are a way to remain sane; his paintings are cathartic. What you do in your Dynamic Meditation he is doing through his paintings: throwing out tensions, nightmares, all the ugliness that is in the mind. It has to be thrown out of the system, and it can be done through painting very easily.

Carl Gustav Jung used to tell his patients to paint. And many insane people have painted really beautiful paintings. But, certainly, those paintings are insane! How can an insane person paint a sane painting? It may have a certain beauty of its own - the beauty of insanity - it may have a certain proportion, a certain arrangement of colors, or it may even have a certain vision, but something of his insanity is bound to be lurking there around it. And Jung became aware, slowly slowly, that through painting insane people can be helped tremendously - painting can become a therapy. And, certainly, he is right. If you can paint your nightmares, you will be getting free from them. It is an expression! Expression always brings freedom. Repression brings bondage, expression brings freedom. And this is one of the beautiful ways to express, to paint.

If you are afraid of death, tortured by the idea of death, if you have nightmares about death, and you can paint many paintings of death, you will get rid of those ideas. You have brought them to the conscious from the unconscious. Anything that is brought to the conscious from the unconscious, you become free of it.

But humanity has been doing just the opposite. We have been told for centuries to throw things from the conscious to the unconscious - that's what repression is. Yes, in a way, you appear to have got free of them, but not really. In fact, they have gone deeper in you, they have sunk deeper in you. They will trouble you even more. Now they will control you from the unconscious and you will not even be aware of them.

The whole approach of psychoanalysis is against repression: bring all that is repressed in the unconscious to the conscious. It can be done in many ways. Psychoanalysis is the longest route; it takes three years, six years, even ten. Then too the analysis is never complete. There is not a single person in the whole world whose psychoanalysis is complete and finished.

It cannot be finished, because the process is slow. Twice a week or thrice a week you see your psychoanalyst; lying on the psychoanalyst's couch you throw out your garbage for one hour. He listens patiently - at least he pretends that he is listening patiently. And because he is listening you go on bringing it out. He gives you encouragement, so you go on digging deeper and deeper, and you bring things from the unconscious to the conscious. His presence, his expertise, his name, his authority, make you courageous.

You are not afraid of bringing things up which would scare you if you brought them up when you were alone - because you would see yourself on the verge of going mad. But his authority and his presence...and that may be only in your belief, because he himself may be more insane than you are. But you can have just the belief that he knows that he will be able to help, that he is there, so you need not be afraid; you can go and dig deep into your unconscious.

The more you bring to the conscious, the more you are freed - it is very unburdening.

But once, twice or thrice a week you unburden, and the whole week you go on gathering again. The three hours' doing is undone; you remain the same. It becomes a vicious circle. In the society, in the family, you again accumulate repressions, and you go to the analyst and you express those suppressions. A little bit unburdened, you are back in the society - the same society, the same people. You listen to the same priest, you read the same newspaper, you go to the same political rally. You remain a communist or you remain a Catholic. The same wife, the same husband, the same children, the same people to associate with.... Again repression happens.

This is a very temporary relief.

Many other ways are being found. Painting is one of the ways - far more significant, because the unconscious knows the language of pictures and not the language of words.

The unconscious expresses itself in pictures. That's why in your dreams your unconscious expresses itself more adequately. Hence the psychoanalyst wants to know about your dreams more and more. Dreams are a pictorial, primitive language, unsophisticated, more innocent. And that's exactly what happens when you paint.

Painting is bringing your dreams out into the light - it can help tremendously. My own feeling is that if Picasso had been prevented from painting he would have gone mad. It was his painting that saved him - although he was unaware that it was his painting that was saving him. But his painting has the quality of madness in it.

If you look at a Picasso painting and meditate over it you will feel dizzy, you will feel uneasy, you will feel tense, you will not feel relaxed. And if you live in a room where on all the walls are Picasso paintings, there is every danger that you will have nightmares, or you may go mad. Those paintings will provoke your insanity.

So, Nirgun, you can avoid the art galleries, you can bypass Picassos, but you cannot bypass the aesthetic layer of your being. You cannot bypass the aesthetic dimension; otherwise you will remain impoverished, lopsided, something will be missing in you.

And I would not like anything to be missing in my sannyasins. They have to be as scientific as possible. I don't mean - again remember - that you have to become a physicist or a chemist or a biologist or a physiologist. I don't mean that! When I say you have to be a scientist, I mean you have to be scientific - it is a metaphor. Always remember: I am talking in metaphors and similes and parables.

You have to be scientific. To approach the world, the objective world, rightly, the only way is science. If the Bible says that the earth is not round but flat, don't believe in it - be scientific. The earth is round and not flat. The Bible has no right to say anything about something objective. The Bible is a religious book; it has its own dimension. Don't confuse these dimensions.

Because of this confusion there has arisen a great conflict between science and religion.

There is no need at all. Science has its own realm, its own territory. First the priests started interfering with science; now, the whole story is again being repeated in the opposite order. Now scientists are trying to interfere in the world of religion.

Don't ask a scientist whether God exists or not - that is none of his business. What does he know about God? That is not his dimension. And whatsoever he says about God is stupid; whatsoever he says is going to be wrong.

It is like asking a great doctor about poetry - he may be a great doctor, a great physician, but asking him about poetry just because he is a great physician is foolish. Or asking a great poet about your illness because he is a great poet...you can see the stupidity of it. You will not go to a great poet to be diagnosed just because he is a great poet. You will go to a doctor - he may not be a poet at all.

The scientist has no right to say anything about the interiority of humanity - that is not his world. But now he is interfering. He is doing the same wrong that the priests have been doing for centuries.

Galileo was called by the pope, forced in his old age to apologize because he had said that it is not the sun that goes round the earth, but the earth that goes round the sun.

Now, it is against the Bible. The priests were very much annoyed: "How can you deny the Bible? Who are you?" In his old age - he was seventy, ill, bed-ridden - he was forced to go to the court, he was forced to kneel down before the pope, and he was asked to apologize.

He must have been a man of humor, he must have had a great sense of humor. He said, "Yes, sir, I apologize. I declare that the Bible is right, that the earth does not go round the sun but the sun goes round the earth. Are you satisfied, sir?"

And they were all happy. They said, "We are satisfied."

And then Galileo laughed. He said, "But whatsoever I say, it makes no difference - the earth goes round the sun. My statements, what do they mean? What can they do? What can I do? My saying it won't help - the earth won't listen. But I apologize, I am wrong and the Bible is right. But remember well: the earth goes round the sun - it has no obligation to fulfill my desire. I would like it to go according to the Bible and according to you, but I am helpless, utterly helpless."

The Bible has many unscientific statements, the Vedas have many unscientific statements. All old scriptures have many unscientific statements, for a certain reason:

because in those days there was no science as a separate phenomenon. The religious scripture was the only scripture available. So it used to collect everything; whatever knowledge was available was collected in the scripture. It contains art, it contains mathematics, it contains geography, it contains history, it contains science - it contains everything that was available. And the knowledge was so small that it could be contained in a single scripture.

But now, centuries have passed, man has grown, has come of age. Now, science has its own world. We should drop all that is scientific from the religious scriptures - they have nothing to do with it. Neither does science have anything to do with religious scriptures or the religious dimension. But this is how stupid minds go on quarreling.

I would like you to be scientific - as far as the world is concerned, be scientific. As far as your inner reality is concerned, be religious. And there is a world between the two, the world of in-between, the twilight world, where the objective and the subjective meet.

That is the world of aesthetics. About that, be an artist, be a poet, be a musician.

All these dimensions fulfilled and you will become spiritual; all these dimensions enriched will make you the fourth man, the spiritual man. My sannyasins have to be the fourth - integrated, whole. Nothing has to be bypassed, Nirgun. Everything has to be lived, loved, experienced. Everything has to be absorbed, so that you become as rich as it is possible to become.

The second question:

Question 2:

Anurag, total relaxation is the ultimate. That's the moment when one becomes a buddha. That is the moment of realization, enlightenment, christ-consciousness. You cannot be totally relaxed right now. At the innermost core a tension will persist.

But start relaxing. Start from the circumference - that's where we are, and we can start only from where we are. Relax the circumference of your being - relax your body, relax your behavior, relax your acts. Walk in a relaxed way, eat in a relaxed way, talk, listen in a relaxed way. Slow down every process. Don't be in a hurry and don't be in haste.

Move as if all eternity is available to you - in fact, it is available to you. We are here from the beginning and we are going to be here to the very end, if there is a beginning and there is an end. In fact, there is no beginning and no end. We have always been here and we will be here always. Forms go on changing, but not the substance; garments go on changing, but not the soul.

Tension means hurry, fear, doubt. Tension means a constant effort to protect, to be secure, to be safe. Tension means preparing for the tomorrow now, or for the afterlife - afraid tomorrow you will not be able to face the reality, so be prepared. Tension means the past that you have not lived really but only somehow bypassed; it hangs, it is a hangover, it surrounds you.

Remember one very fundamental thing about life: any experience that has not been lived will hang around you, will persist: "Finish me! Live me! Complete me!" There is an intrinsic quality in every experience that it tends and wants to be finished, completed.

Once completed, it evaporates; incomplete, it persists, it tortures you, it haunts you, it attracts your attention. It says, "What are you going to do about me? I am still incomplete - fulfill me!"

Your whole past hangs around you with nothing completed - because nothing has been lived really, everything somehow bypassed, partially lived, only so-so, in a lukewarm way. There has been no intensity, no passion. You have been moving like a somnambulist, a sleepwalker. So that past hangs, and the future creates fear. And between the past and the future is crushed your present, the only reality.

You will have to relax from the circumference. The first step in relaxing is the body.

Remember as many times as possible to look in the body, whether you are carrying some tension in the body somewhere - at the neck, in the head, in the legs. Relax it consciously. Just go to that part of the body, and persuade that part, say to it lovingly "Relax!"

And you will be surprised that if you approach any part of your body, it listens, it follows you - it is your body! With closed eyes, go inside the body from the toe to the head searching for any place where there is a tension. And then talk to that part as you talk to a friend; let there be a dialogue between you and your body. Tell it to relax, and tell it, "There is nothing to fear. Don't be afraid. I am here to take care - you can relax."

Slowly slowly, you will learn the knack of it. Then the body becomes relaxed.

Then take another step, a little deeper; tell the mind to relax. And if the body listens, mind also listens, but you cannot start with the mind - you have to start from the beginning. You cannot start from the middle. Many people start with the mind and they fail; they fail because they start from a wrong place. Everything should be done in the right order.

If you become capable of relaxing the body voluntarily, then you will be able to help your mind relax voluntarily. Mind is a more complex phenomenon. Once you have become confident that the body listens to you, you will have a new trust in yourself.

Now even the mind can listen to you. It will take a little longer with the mind, but it happens.

When the mind is relaxed, then start relaxing your heart, the world of your feelings, emotions - which is even more complex, more subtle. But now you will be moving with trust, with great trust in yourself. Now you will know it is possible. If it is possible with the body and possible with the mind, it is possible with the heart too. And then only, when you have gone through these three steps, can you take the fourth. Now you can go to the innermost core of your being, which is beyond body, mind, heart: the very center of your existence. And you will be able to relax it too.

And that relaxation certainly brings the greatest joy possible, the ultimate in ecstasy, acceptance. You will be full of bliss and rejoicing. Your life will have the quality of dance to it.

The whole of existence is dancing, except man. The whole of existence is in a very relaxed movement; movement there is, certainly, but it is utterly relaxed. Trees are growing and birds are chirping and rivers are flowing, stars are moving: everything is going in a very relaxed way. No hurry, no haste, no worry, and no waste. Except man.

Man has fallen a victim of his mind.

Man can rise above gods and fall below animals. Man has a great spectrum. From the lowest to the highest, man is a ladder.

Anurag, start from the body, and then go, slowly slowly, deeper. And don't start with anything else unless you have first solved the primary. If your body is tense, don't start with the mind. Wait. Work on the body. And just small things are of immense help.

You walk at a certain pace; that has become habitual, automatic. Now try to walk slowly. Buddha used to say to his disciples, "Walk very slowly, and take each step very consciously." If you take each step very consciously, you are bound to walk slowly. If you are running, hurrying, you will forget to remember. Hence Buddha walks very slowly.

Just try walking very slowly, and you will be surprised - a new quality of awareness starts happening in the body. Eat slowly, and you will be surprised - there is great relaxation. Do everything slowly...just to change the old pattern, just to come out of old habits.

First the body has to become utterly relaxed, like a small child, then only start with the mind. Move scientifically: first the simplest, then the complex, then the more complex.

And then only can you relax at the ultimate core.

You ask me, Anurag, "Will you say something more about relaxation? I am aware of a tension deep in the core of me and suspect that I have probably never been totally relaxed."

That is the situation of every human being. It is good that you are aware - millions are unaware of it. You are blessed that you are aware, because if you are aware then something can be done. If you are not aware, then nothing is possible. Awareness is the beginning of transformation.

And you say, "When you said the other day that to relax is one of the most complex phenomena possible, I glimpsed a rich tapestry in which the threads of relaxation and let-go were deeply interwoven with trust, and then love came into it, and acceptance, going with the flow, union and ecstasy...."

Yes, Anurag, relaxation is one of the most complex phenomena - very rich, multidimensional. All these things are part of it: let-go, trust, surrender, love, acceptance, going with the flow, union with existence, egolessness, ecstasy. All these are part of it, and all these start happening if you learn the ways of relaxation.

Your so-called religions have made you very tense, because they have created guilt in you. My effort here is to help you get rid of all guilt and all fear. I would like to tell you:

there is no hell and no heaven. So don't be afraid of hell and don't be greedy for heaven.

All that exists is this moment. You can make this moment a hell or a heaven - that certainly is possible - but there is no heaven or hell somewhere else. Hell is when you are all tense, and heaven is when you are all relaxed. Total relaxation is paradise.

The third question:

Question 3:

Nishant, you are not imagining things. With me, you will have to be always on the move - things will be changing. As you grow up I will be telling you things which I could not tell you before. It is not that my love for Buddha is less - my love cannot be less or more; my love is just love, it is a quality, it has no quantitative dimension to it. It can never be less or more - it simply is.

I love Buddha, I love Jesus, I love Zarathustra, I love Lao Tzu, I love Patanjali - BECAUSE I love...because I love you, because I love the trees, because I love the birds.

My love is not less.

And you are perfectly right that I am standing apart - I will be standing apart more and more in the future. I am preparing for the new phase. The work has to take a quantum leap, and much preparation is needed. The work has to take on a totally different quality now. Now I have people with me of great trust, of love, people who are committed and surrendered.

In the beginning I was talking to the masses. It was a totally different kind of work: I was in search of disciples. Talking to the masses I was using their language; talking to the masses was talking to a primary class. You can't go very deep; you have to talk superficially. You have to look to whom you are talking.

Then, slowly slowly, a few people started turning from students to disciples. Then my approach changed. It was now possible to communicate on higher levels. Then disciples started changing into sannyasins - they started becoming committed, they started becoming involved with me, with my destiny. My life became their life, my being became their being. Now communication took a jump: it became communion.

Now I have got enough sannyasins...the work will have to move deeper.

I was talking about Buddha before, and I was talking as if I was simply allowing him to flow through me. Now this is not going to be the case. This series is the beginning of a new phase.

Nishant, you have suspected rightly. Now I will have to make it clear what the points are in which I differ from Buddha, from Jesus, from Krishna. I have to make it very clear where I differ from them.

Twenty-five centuries have passed since Buddha. Much has happened since then - much water has flowed down the Ganges. Everything has changed! If Buddha comes into the world he will not be able to recognize that it is the same world that he had left.

I belong to this century. In these twenty-five centuries many new things have been added. For example, Buddha knew nothing about science - he could not. I am not saying that he should have known - he could not! It was impossible. Albert Einstein had not happened yet. Buddha was not aware of many things of which we are aware, I am aware. I have to incorporate all those things. Sigmund Freud and Karl Marx and Albert Einstein and many more have to be incorporated. Religion has to become more and more rich every day.

I will have to make it clear where I differ. I will have to make clear what MORE I am trying to add to the religious heritage. I will not be just a vehicle anymore. That phase is complete. It was needed up to now, because I wanted...the people who loved Buddha, I wanted to approach them; the people who loved Mahavira, I wanted to approach them; the people who loved Jesus, I wanted to approach them.

Humanity is divided: a few are with Jesus, a few are with Buddha, a few are with Krishna...and so on and so forth. There are no free human beings available. I had to pick and choose from different sects, from different communities, from different religions.

The only way was: to speak the way Buddha spoke, then only would a few Buddhists become involved with me; otherwise it would have been impossible for them, they would not have understood me. Now they have become involved with me it is going to be a totally different matter. Now their love has arisen for me, it is easy for me to say where I differ from Buddha and they will be able to understand. It won't create any trouble for them, it will not be confusing to them.

But remember, my love is not less because I am standing apart: my love is the same. My love is not going to change; it is not something that can change. But more and more it will happen: I will stand apart and separate.

Now I have got my own people. And I have to make it very clear where I differ, where I am trying to give something new, something more; where I am trying to enrich the heritage, where I am contributing. And sometimes I will have to criticize too - but I love so much that I can criticize.

Sometimes I am going to criticize Buddha, Mahavira, Jesus. Not that I don't love them - I love them, otherwise why should I speak on them? Even if I criticize them, that means my love is so much that I will take even that trouble, to criticize them.

Buddha has given much to humanity, but humanity is an on-going process. And everything that happens to humanity brings its advantages and also brings its disadvantages.

In this world, nothing can remain absolutely pure. When it rains the water is pure. The moment it touches the earth...in fact even before that: the moment it enters into the atmosphere, the polluted air starts contaminating it. The earth is surrounded by a thick layer of air; when the water enters into this layer of air, it starts becoming polluted. And when it falls on the earth it becomes muddy, it becomes dirty. Still it is water, but it is no longer pure.

That's what happens to every truth. When Buddha uttered something, it was absolutely pure. The moment it was heard by people it became impure. When it was recorded - and remember it was recorded after many years, after three hundred years...now can you imagine that people can record after three hundred years exactly the same thing that Buddha said? It is impossible! People are people; they will automatically destroy it, distort it - they will give their own colors to it.

The day Buddha died, his followers were divided into thirty-six schools - immediately!

Thirty-six interpretations. Nobody was agreeing on what he said, or even if they were agreeing about the words, they were not agreeing about the meaning that was given to the words.

I am reminded:

In the last year of his life, Sigmund Freud called all his disciples - the important ones, the chief ones. He was feeling death coming close by, he must have heard the first steps of death, and he wanted to have a last gathering.

They were sitting at the table, nearabout thirty people from all over the world - all the chief disciples - and they started arguing about something that Freud had said a few days before. Freud was there! He was the host, but they completely forgot about Freud.

They became so involved in the argument: somebody was saying one thing, and somebody else was saying something else, and somebody else was contradicting both.

And they were arguing about what Freud really meant.... And Freud watched, listened, and then shouted, "Stop all this nonsense! Do you think I am dead? I am here, present - why don't you ask me what my meaning was? And if you can do this to me while I am alive, what are you going to do when I am dead? You don't bother to ask me, and you have wasted one hour in arguing with each other, fighting, getting irritated, annoyed, shouting at each other...and the master is present!"

And Freud is not an enlightened man. If this can happen to an unenlightened person, what about the Buddha who speaks from the highest peaks of existence? The moment he utters something, it is no longer the same as it was in his heart. When it is heard, it is no longer the same as it was uttered. When it is interpreted, it is totally something else.

Many times I will criticize. Many times I will tell you about all the advantages and all the disadvantages that have happened. Buddha is the purest religious dimension, the purest possible, but how can I avoid saying that he is a one-dimensional man? If I don't say it, it will be untrue. If I don't say it, my love for truth is not total then. I have to say it, that he is one-dimensional - the purest in his dimension, but he lacks the other dimensions.

He has no appreciation of beauty, not at all. He has no appreciation of music, not at all.

He has no appreciation of love, not at all. The aesthetic dimension is missing, he has bypassed it. And he has no scientific approach; he cannot have - science was not yet developed enough. He is one-dimensional purity, but one-dimensional.

And because he is one-dimensional, this whole country has remained one-dimensional.

Buddha is one-dimensional, Mahavira is one-dimensional, Patanjali is one-dimensional.

All the great religious masters of this country were religious people. They reached to the purest religious experience, and they tried to convert the whole country to their vision. But the disadvantage was that the country became poor. Without science no country can ever become rich. The country became outwardly ugly, starving, ill.

Without science and technology, no country can be outwardly beautiful, healthy, affluent.

Now, I cannot avoid mentioning it - that will not be true, and that will not be right either. That will be deceiving you! That will be a crime against humanity. It is time that somebody should have the guts to say it! Nobody in the whole world is doing it, and the time is ripe that somebody should shout and say that Buddha, Mahavira, Patanjali, Lao Tzu, are immensely beautiful people, and they have contributed much - humanity would not have been what it is without them - they are our very soul, that is absolutely true, but there is a disadvantage because they are all one-dimensional. Other dimensions have remained paralyzed, crippled. And now the time has come: other dimensions have to be fulfilled too.

I would like this country to become rich, scientific, technological, healthy, well nourished - not only this country but the whole of humanity. And I don't see that it is against religion. On the contrary: the more rich a country is, the more religious it can become - because richness gives you opportunity, richness gives you facility, richness gives you time and space and energy, to move inwards. If you don't move, that's your responsibility. Nothing is wrong in being rich. If a rich person is not religious, he is simply mediocre, stupid; it is nothing against richness: it is simply an indication that he is foolish.

If a rich person is not religious, I call him stupid; and if a poor person is religious, I call him intelligent, really intelligent. Rare intelligence is needed for the poor man to become religious. When a Kabir becomes religious he shows more intelligence than Buddha himself - because it is impossible, almost impossible to become religious when you are poor. When you have not known what riches are, how can you get beyond them? One can go beyond a certain thing only when it has been experienced; it is only through experience that one surpasses and transcends. If somebody transcends without experiencing something, that simply means that he has such intelligence that he learns from others' experiences; he need not go into all those things on his own.

Kabir must have looked at the rich people and seen the futility of it all. Hence he dropped that ambition, that desire. Buddha was the son of a king; he lived richly, and through experience he came to understand that all is futile and all is vanity. He came through his own experience: Kabir came by watching others' experiences. Certainly, Kabir needs more intelligence.

Poor persons can become religious, but poor societies cannot become religious. Rich persons may avoid religion, but rich societies cannot avoid religion.

Now, this new dimension has to be added. Religion need not worship poverty. Religion need not console poor people by saying false things to them, by consoling them, by giving them invented theories of past lives and future lives and fate, etcetera. The whole earth is now capable of becoming affluent. Science has released so much power - but it has to be used rightly!

Hence I am not in favor of the Western approach. The West is missing the soul, the very soul - it is only a body. And the danger is that the stupid politicians in the East are going to imitate the West.

Now, every country wants to create atomic energy - even India. Poor countries like India or Pakistan, they want to create atomic bombs. Why? People are poor and starving.

Just a few days ago, India launched a satellite, Bhaskar, into the sky, to study....

Industries don't have electricity; five days in a week, industries are being closed. You don't have electricity, but you launch a satellite to study the possibilities of the sky - competition, foolish competition.

Now there are five hundred man-made satellites going round the earth. One of them, the American Skylab, is going to fall because it has gone out of control. It can create great danger. Poona is on its way; from Bombay to Poona, and from Poona up to Kannada, somewhere it will fall. And it will not fall in one piece in one place - at least five hundred pieces, and each piece will be like a bomb. It can fall on an atomic generator and can destroy the whole earth.

And all those five hundred satellites, sooner or later, are going to go out of control. If the American satellite can go out of control, what about the Indian? Just two years ago, India launched its first satellite. Now it is functioning almost like an Indian - the name of the satellite was Aryabhatta - now it goes on giving wrong information. It is a nuisance! You cannot believe it. In the beginning they used to believe it, but then they found that it was giving absolutely wrong information. How like the Indian mind! How representative! Now they want to get rid of it, they want it to shut up, but it won't...it continues to send information. You cannot shut it up.

Poor countries imitating the West - the whole thing is so foolish. The poor countries certainly need more scientific understanding, but they don't need sophisticated scientific instruments - that is not their need.

And now science has released enough energy for the whole earth to be transformed into a paradise.

Buddha has contributed immensely, but as a side effect he has been one of the causes of India's poverty. I cannot ignore that fact. I have to state it. I have not stated it up to now, but now I have my own people who will understand.

Mahavira has contributed tremendously to India's spiritual enrichment, but the by- product of his teachings has been slavery for one thousand years; because of his teaching of nonviolence, India became one of the most cowardly countries in the world.

Now, Krishna is right in saying to leave everything to God - in the religious dimension that's how things should be: trust God. But not in the scientific dimension - there is a totally different mechanism that functions: doubt, not trust. Trust is the foundation of the religious world, doubt the foundation of the scientific world.

Krishna is perfectly right when he says to Arjuna, "Trust God! Surrender to God. Trust that whatsoever he is doing is right." Now, what has been the side effect? The side effect has been: "If you are poor, trust God; if you are ill, trust God. Whatsoever he is doing is right." This is the side effect. In the religious dimension it is perfectly right, but when you bring it to the scientific dimension it becomes absolutely wrong.

Now I have to say it. And I know I am going to suffer much because of these statements, because in India people are not accustomed to hearing any criticism of Krishna, Mahavira or Buddha - no, not at all.

First I will make it clear to you where I differ. And soon I will start criticizing the side effects too.

Nishant, wait a little more, because I have to tell you the whole truth - the whole truth as it is, whatsoever the consequences. I will appreciate whatsoever is worth appreciating and I will condemn whatsoever needs to be condemned.

India's poverty, slavery, long long suffering, cannot simply be tolerated, ignored. And Krishna, Mahavira and Buddha cannot be forgiven - they are responsible. If they are to be praised for what they have contributed to the spiritual, they have to be criticized too because they have been the root cause of India's fall.

And now the time has come when everything should be put right. And it is not only a question of India: it is a question of the whole world. Just as Indian fools can imitate the West, there are Western fools who can imitate India, and can go on committing the same kind of mistakes that India has committed in the past.

We have to put things absolutely clear. We have to be very very dispassionate. That's why, Nishant, you are feeling there is a certain difference - there is. You are not imagining things. My work is going into a new phase, I am entering into a new phase.

Before the new commune happens, I am preparing for it....

The last question:

Question 4:

Sandhan, sex is tiring - and that's why I say to you: Don't avoid it. Unless you know its stupidity you will not be able to get rid of it. Unless you know its sheer wastage, you will not be able to transcend it.

It is good that you have started feeling tired - that is natural. Sex simply means energy being dissipated downwards. The energy has to move upwards, then it is nourishing.

Then it opens inexhaustible treasures in you - aes dhammo sanantano. But if you go on and on into sex like a maniac, soon you will find yourself utterly exhausted, wasted.

A newly married couple go to Niagara Falls for their honeymoon. When they arrive, they immediately check into a hotel and are not heard of for three days, no room service or anything. After a while the manager gets a bit worried, so he decides to check up on them.

He knocks on the door, hears a little scurrying in the room, and then a pale-looking man opens the door with just his shorts on. "We were worried," said the manager.

"Well, we just got married," replied the man.

"I understand," says the manager, "but you have one of the great wonders of the world...."

At that a tiny voice from the back of the room interrupts, "If you show that thing to me one more time, I will jump out of the window."

You don't get it! ...Three days continuously - the woman is bound to jump out of the window.

Man can go on living stupidly only to a certain extent - beyond that he has to become aware of what he is doing to himself. Sandhan, it is time now. There are far more important things in life than sex. Sex is not all. It is significant, but not all. If you remain trapped in it you will miss all the glories of life.

And I am not against sex, remember. That's why my teaching becomes a little contradictory. I am a paradox. I cannot help it because truth itself is a paradox. I am not against sex, because those who are against sex, they will always remain sexual. I am for sex, because if you go deep into it you will come out of it soon. The more consciously you go into it, the sooner you will come out of it. And the day when a person comes out of sex totally is a day of great blessing.

It is good that you are feeling tired. Now don't go to a physician for some medicine - that won't help, or that may only postpone your tiredness a little bit more. If you are feeling tired that simply shows that you have come to the point from where you can jump out of it.

What is the point of remaining in it if you are feeling tired? Get out of it! And I am not saying repress it. When you are feeling much energy for it and you try to get out, there will be repression. But when you are exhausted and tired and you see the futility of it, you can come out of it without repression. And to come out of sex without repression is to be free of it.

Freedom from sex is a great experience. Freedom from sex makes your energies available for meditation, for samadhi.

Enough for today.