I am a river continuously flowing

Question 1:

Sohan and Manikbabu, the phenomenon you are asking about is very simple. In fact, the simplest things in life are the most difficult to understand - one almost always misses the obvious.

It is true: twenty-five years have passed, and you both have not wavered for a single moment since the day you saw me. You have become part of me, and I have become part of you. Many more have come in these twenty-five years, and many have dropped out - even a person like Ajit Saraswati.

He is your friend; hence, you have mentioned his name.

The simple phenomenon that I want you to understand is, how you approach me. It can either be the approach of love, or it can be the approach of logic. Love knows no turning back; logic cannot be relied upon. You have been in love with me; hence, there was no question of turning back. Love knows no doubt - it trusts, and trusts absolutely.

But people like Ajit Saraswati have not approached me in the same way. Their approach has been of the head, of the intellect. They were convinced that what I was saying was exactly what they believed. I was secondary; they were primary. They were comparing continuously: my being right was dependent on whether it fitted in with their own intellectual garbage. Any moment, if I said something that did not fit with their ideas - immediately there were doubts.

They did not love me, they only loved their own thoughts. And what thoughts do they have?

Everything is just borrowed from here, from there - and it is impossible for me to go on saying things which suit the philosophy of everybody who comes to me.

Neither of you was related to me in any intellectual way. That is the worst kind of relationship - it is always on the point of breaking up.

You did not love me because I was saying things which were according to your knowledge, according to your philosophy, according to your religion. You loved me first, and once you love, then it is not a question of my statements fitting in with your statements.

Love is such a fire that it burns all the garbage that you have been thinking of as tremendously valuable. All that remains is pure gold. Except through love, in existence there is no way to find pure gold.

You both are fortunate - you have never discussed any question with me. I have been staying with you for many years - others have been coming to your house with questions, with their doubts, with their arguments - but you have never asked anything. Only at night when everybody else was gone, you both used to sit by my side on the balcony of your house, in deep silence, facing the sky and the stars.

Our meeting has been of a totally different quality. It was not a mind-to-mind relationship; it was a heart-to-heart melting. I have never felt that you are separate from me; not even for a single moment could I have conceived that you could turn away - away from me. That point we crossed on the first day.

The first day, when we met, everything became absolutely decisive for the future. It was not that tomorrow one does not know whether you will be with me or not - I could have said on the very first day that not only in this life, but in coming lives too, you will be with me. When love is pure, when there are no conditions to it, when there are no causes for it, when it is uncaused... there is no way of turning back.

But as far as Ajit Saraswati is concerned, I was never certain, even for a single moment - because he was continuously thinking that he knows. Perhaps he is not capable and articulate enough to say it, but whatever I am saying is his knowledge; as long as he found that they were running parallel and together, he was with me. Although he thought that he was in love with me, his love was unconscious, only a thought. Your love is a reality.

Whenever you have a headache, you don't say, "I think I have a headache." There is no question of thinking; you simply say, "I have a headache." If a person says, "Perhaps I have a headache..." he himself is not certain about his own headache.

Ajit Saraswati, and people like him, thought that they loved me, but they simply loved their own thoughts - and they found echoes of their own thoughts in me, but more clear. Perhaps I was a mirror - they saw their faces in the mirror and they enjoyed that: "How beautiful is the mirror!" They were only saying that about their own faces, reflections. They were not even aware that they were standing before a mirror.

So many came in these twenty-five years, and it was natural that many would turn away at a certain point: whenever their philosophy felt offended, their mind felt that they would have to change their way of thinking. Rather than choosing me, they had chosen themselves - and moved away. With you it is a totally different thing.

In these twenty-five years, there have been many springs. And I am not a static person; I am just like a river - continuously flowing. If you can come with me, good; if you cannot come with me, that too is good. But I cannot change my flow just to adjust to people; I have never adjusted to anybody.

I don't know any compromise. So only those people who have loved me so much that if there was a question of choosing between me and themselves, they would choose me - only those people have remained with me for these twenty-five years.

You have seen so many changes, and you have become seasoned. Now you can be without any fear. Changes will be coming. As long as I am breathing, I will go on moving. And those who have learned to move with me have also learned the joy and the dance of movement. They are going with me towards the ultimate ocean.

When my river meets the ocean, I am absolutely certain that Sohan and Manik will still be with me.

Question 2:

Krishna Chaitanya, I remember the evening seven years ago when you and your wife became sannyasins.

You say, "Seven years ago I took sannyas from You and I found myself totally melted." I cannot agree with that, because I remember perfectly: your wife was certainly totally melted, but not you. You were half-hearted, still wondering deep down whether what you are doing is right or wrong. You may have forgotten it... I have not forgotten it - I have a god-damned memory!

This is only your retrospective imagination, that you totally melted and tuned in with me. If it had happened, then the remaining question was not possible. It was a very superficial phenomenon.

You are also an intellectual. You took the step into sannyas after long consideration - and you were also afraid of the society around you.

I remember perfectly well: before I came to Poona in 1974, I lived in Bombay for four years, in Woodlands. You were living in the same building, but in four years you never came to see me. And thousands of people were coming and going - it was not that you were not aware; but you were afraid of society.... When I came to Poona, it was easy for you to come to me - because in Poona nobody knew you.

Is it not strange that for four years I was living in the same building and you never came to see me, when hundreds of people were coming every day? And when I left Bombay and came to Poona, soon you appeared here - not only appeared, but you were ready to take sannyas.

Once in a while I saw you and your wife, Krishna Chetana, in great mass gatherings in Bombay, where I was speaking on SHRIMAD BHAGAVADGITA. You used to stand in the line, where I would come down from the stage and go towards the car. I touched your hand... your wife's hand... and many people were standing there - even that I remember: that your hands were always cold; your wife's hands were always warm. Without that warmth, melting into me is not possible.

It seems perhaps you came here because of Krishna Chetana, your wife; and also perhaps because in those days I was speaking on Hindu scriptures, and they were very gratifying to your mind, your conditioning, your upbringing. But my river has been changing many times, many turns, passing through valleys and mountains - and always moving into new territory.

So I have been watching your face many times here. When Krishna Chetana had tears in her eyes, you had only doubts. When she was crying with joy, ecstasy, your mind was full of questions, doubts.... And it is not as you say, that "for some time I have felt that something has remained unmelted in me." It has been so from the very beginning - and you knew it; perhaps not very clearly, perhaps it was just an unconscious feeling. Now you may have become more alert about it.

And the reason why you may have become more alert about it is that there has been a five-, six-year gap, while I have not been here. In these five, six years, hundreds of people from India reached the commune in America - even people for whom it was absolutely impossible to reach; they had to sell their houses, their land, everything. But they wanted to see me at least once before they die.

I waited for five years, and many times I thought: Krishna Chaitanya, Krishna Chetana... they are rich enough; they can afford to come to America very easily - there is no problem - they can be here at each festival time at least. But I did not receive even a single letter from you.

Now that I am back... many things which you cannot see when you are close, you become aware of when there is distance. You were left alone for these six years; that's why you are now feeling that something has remained unmelted. It is not "something," it is almost everything that has remained unmelted.

You are saying, "And at times I am overpowered by that, despite myself." Just think of it: if it is just a small part - "something" - how you can be overpowered by it, in spite of yourself? It must be something very big. It must be something more powerful than yourself - otherwise how can you be overcome by it? It is better to be very clear about it: that your sannyas has been very superficial. It is good to be alert and aware of its superficiality. Then the possibility opens of going deeper into it.

Remaining unaware of it is dangerous.

You are saying, "I am not able to digest what You say." You are perfectly able to digest what I say, because your digestion system is perfectly okay. The problem is somewhere else: you do not want to digest it. It goes against your upbringing, it goes against your tradition, it goes against your orthodox mind. You can digest very well if I appreciate Krishna - but if I criticize him, then you cannot digest it. For digestion, it makes no difference: if it can digest appreciation, it can digest criticism.

And if the relationship between me and you is that of love, it does not matter whether I am appreciating Krishna or criticizing Krishna. What matters is that I am appreciating, I am criticizing.

Nobody has appreciated Krishna the way I have appreciated, and nobody has criticized him either, the way I have criticized - because I am not looking only at one aspect. My effort is to give you life's contradictions and make you aware that life is not a non-contradictory, consistent phenomenon. It is basically contradictory.

Wherever there is a height like Krishna, there are bound to be on both sides deep dark valleys.

And it will be unjust and unfair only to talk about the heights, or only to talk about the valleys. Both these things have been done. Those who are enemies talk only about the valleys: Jainas have criticized Krishna and thrown him into the seventh hell. They have only looked at the valley part, the dark part; they have never looked at the sunlit peaks. And there are people - Shankaracharya Ramanujacharya, Nimbaraka, and thousands of others who are followers of Krishna - who have only looked at the sunlit peaks, the heights. They have never bothered to see that the peak cannot exist without the valleys.

My whole approach is totally different from anybody else's: I want to present Krishna, or Christ, or Mahavira, or Buddha, in their totality. I am neither their friend nor their enemy - I am just trying to make you understand that even the greatest amongst you have their darker parts.

So if you find a dark part within yourself, don't condemn it. And even the people who had such dark valleys around them managed to reach to the highest peak of consciousness. So if you are surrounded by darkness, don't be worried: the dawn is not far away. It is just in the womb of darkness that the dawn grows. And as the darkness becomes darker, the morning comes closer.

I am not concerned with Krishna, not concerned with Christ, I am concerned with you. And these are just my excuses to give you a deep understanding that life is a harmony between contradictions - that the lowest is not separate from the highest, that the saint is not separate from the sinner.

That's why I had to do both things: to appreciate and to criticize.

Whenever I was appreciating something that satisfied your ego, you felt you were melting with me, that you were in tune with me. And whenever I said something that went against your conditioning, immediately you were overwhelmed by doubt - "in spite of yourself." What do you mean by it? Were you fighting with the doubt?

When you say, "At times I am overpowered by that... something that has remained unmelted, despite myself," are you separate from it? You are it. You are your doubt, and you are your trust; you are your love, and you are your logic.

You are saying, "I am not able to digest what you say." Just watch what it is that you cannot digest, and why you cannot digest it. Do you want to digest it? - or don't you want to digest it? It will be a great spiritual insight for you to watch something that seems to be indigestible: Why? And I am here - you can ask as many questions as possible about that indigestible thing, and I will hammer it on your head, every day. So either you digest it or you disappear - but don't leave anything undigested in yourself; that becomes poisonous. Why have you not been asking about it? It is just the fear that that shows doubt - but nothing is wrong with doubt.

Why should you ask, "Osho, I am even guilty of having doubted You?" From where have you got this idea? That's what I am saying: you are continuously carrying your orthodox mind. My whole effort is to help you to be completely be free of guilt.

There is nothing wrong if you doubt something - openly expose it. Perhaps it needs to be explained to you from a different angle - but don't say, "Please forgive me." Who am I to forgive you? I am not angry at you. It is your right to doubt, it is your right to question, it is your right to be a sannyasin or not to be a sannyasin. In either case, my blessings are with you. There is no question of me forgiving anybody - because you cannot hurt me; hence, the question of forgiving you does not arise.

And you should not feel guilty about your doubts. You should only feel ashamed that you have not brought your doubts here. Every morning, every evening, I am talking to you. People are asking....

Why are you keeping your doubts within yourself? And whenever I have looked at your face, I have seen all those doubts in your eyes, in your face; I have never seen those doubts in your wife's face or her eyes.

This time when you came to see me in Bombay, your daughter was also with you. For six years I had not seen her. She has grown - but I feel a little sorry for her, because she has not grown like her mother; she is growing like you. I could see the same kind of expression in her eyes and on her face.

It happens naturally: girls fall in love with their fathers, just as boys fall in love with their mothers.

So without your knowing, you must be sowing seeds of doubt in her also. Don't do that - because doubt never brings anybody any joy; it never brings any blessing in life; it never brings any ecstasy - particularly to a woman, whose heart should grow, whose love should grow. It seems she has stopped the growth of her heart, her love, and she is following you, in your footsteps. And perhaps you are happy that your daughter is following you - but you are unconscious that you are destroying her.

It is not logic that brings life's blessings to people - it is love. Let her become more like her mother.

Krishna Chetana is certainly immensely blessed. And if you have been here, perhaps you should be grateful to your wife; most probably it is she who has brought you close to me. She is a rare woman.

There are hundreds of women here, but she is still a rare woman: so full of love that I don't think she has ever doubted, or has ever thought about doubting.

You are asking, "Please forgive me, as I don't know what to do during these moments." It is not a question of certain moments - it is a question of your very approach: you will have to change your very approach.

First, there is no need to feel guilty.

Second, when a doubt arises, there is no need to suppress it - otherwise, one day it will become too much and it will overwhelm you.

A doubt is like pus. Don't force it inside the body - bring it out. These meetings are therapeutic.

These are not philosophical meetings; these are meetings where you can bring your doubts out and dissolve them. Not that I am going to give you the answer - I am simply going to destroy your question, and your answer will grow within yourself.

Everybody is born with the answer: you can call it the soul, you can call it God, you can call it the truth. Everybody is born with the truth - it just has to be uncovered... from so many layers that the parents and the society and the educational system go on putting on you.

So, Krishna Chaitanya, from now onwards don't go on hiding and keeping your doubts to yourself.

Don't be afraid: nobody here feels that if you bring your doubts out, you are committing a sin. This is not a church. This is not a gathering of believers - it is a gathering of lovers.

If a doubt is there, nothing is wrong in it. Bring it out. Keeping it inside is dangerous; it may become a cancer. Bring it out - I will try my best to destroy it. And once your doubts are destroyed - not replaced by belief - that's my whole process.... I am not trying to replace your doubts with new beliefs. I am not trying to take your old beliefs out and put new beliefs in. I am simply trying to take all beliefs out, and leave you alone, silent, in immense peace.

And in that peace, the seed of your soul starts growing. And one day you will find the mythological lotus blossoming in you, with all its fragrance.

Question 3:

Devageet, everybody has his own pace; and there is no need to force yourself to wake up sooner than it was going to happen naturally. There is no harm in waking up a little later.

I am reminded of a beautiful story: A man was a nuisance to all his neighbors because he was continually arguing against God, against heaven, against hell. He was an atheist, out-and-out. Even the king of the territory heard about him. He was invited to the court of the king, and even the wise people of the court could not manage to convince that man.

In fact, to convince an atheist is an almost impossible job. Unless you can find a man like me, the atheist is going to destroy all your arguments - because you are arguing for a hypothetical God. You cannot produce any evidence, you cannot produce any eyewitnesses, and you cannot produce any argument which is authentic. All arguments about God have been broken and been thrown away by atheists for centuries.

But the king said, "Just give me one more chance: I know about a man... only he can do something in this matter." And he gave him the address of the man and told him to go to the next village, where he lived. "By the side of a river, in a temple, you will find him. His name is Eknath. That is the only man.... If he can change you... otherwise, you are an impossible job."

But the man was very happy: it was a great challenge. So he went to the other village. It was somewhere around nine o'clock in the morning. He said, "By this time he must have finished his worship, bath; this is the right time to reach there." And when he reached the temple he could not believe his eyes: Eknath was fast asleep - not only fast asleep, but he was putting his feet on the statue of God. He was using the statue as a good resting place for his feet.

The atheist, for the first time in his life, said, "My God! Even I cannot put my feet on the statue of God, although I am an atheist and I don't believe in God. But who knows - in the end it may turn out that God is, so I cannot do such a thing. This man is a sannyasin - supposed to be awake early in the morning, five o'clock, before the sun rises. It is nine o'clock and he is fast asleep - and he is going to convince me about God? He has not taken his bath, he has not worshiped, and I don't think he is going to worship - he is putting his feet on the statue of God."

Afraid - this man seems to be dangerous - he sat still in the temple, waiting for whenever he wakes up. About half an hour afterwards, Eknath woke up. He did not even ask God, "Forgive me, in my sleep I have touched you with my feet"; he did not even look back.

The man said, "You are a sannyasin? Is it not written in the scriptures that a sannyasin should wake up in the morning before the sunrise?"

Eknath said, "Yes, it is written. And my interpretation of it is: whenever a sannyasin wakes up, the sun should rise. Who is this sun? If he does not care about me, why should I care about him?"

The man said, "Strange... but you were putting your feet on God's feet, God's head...?"

He said, "Where else can I put my feet? - because the scriptures say, ?God is everywhere.' Do you mean to say that I cannot put my feet anywhere?"

The man said, "Just don't get angry!... but your argument makes sense: if God is everywhere, then whenever, wherever you put your feet, it is always on God's head."

"So what is the problem? And this is such a good rest for my feet. Some idiots think that this is God.

God is everywhere - so how can he be just in this stone, manufactured by the hands of man? You cannot befool me."

The man said, "Forgive me for interfering in your life so early in the morning, but I have come from the other village, sent by the king himself. And I am puzzled - what to say to you, because I used to be an atheist"... used to be, because this man seems to be a greater atheist than he had ever seen before.

Eknath said, "It is perfectly good; you can be an atheist, nothing is wrong in it. God does not mind it at all - just believe me. And now get lost!"

The man said, "But that king has put me in a strange situation. I came to be convinced about God."

Eknath said, "Convinced about God? What business do you have with God?"

He said, "No, I don't have any business."

"Then," he said, "why bother about useless things? Find something useful. Now I am going, because it is time for my food."

The atheist said, "Are you not going to take a bath in the river?"

He said, "Who cares about the river! It is always there. I can take a bath at any time - in the middle of the night, in the afternoon - what is the hurry? It is always flowing there. But if I don't reach in time to a house where they have promised to give me food today, that will be difficult - so I will take a bath after my food."

The man said, "But we have never heard of sannyasins taking food without a bath, without worship."

He said, "You must be talking about old-fashioned sannyasins. I am a contemporary man... and just don't waste my time: you can take the bath and worship God - meanwhile I am coming with my food."

And somebody had promised him... so he brought the food. He was sitting just in front of the temple, and a dog came and took one of his chapatis and ran away. And the man was watching; Eknath ran behind the dog: "You idiot, wait!"

He said, "My God, is he going to take that chapati back?"

So he also followed, and Eknath managed to get hold of the dog, and he told the dog, "I have told you many times that if you want a chapati, just wait there - but I will not allow you to eat a chapati without butter." So he took the chapati back, put the butter on it, gave the chapati back, and said to the dog, "Ram!" - which is the name of God in India - "now you can eat it, but always behave."

The man watched this whole scene: to the dog he is saying "God" and he will not allow the dog to eat the chapati without butter... a very strange and unique man. Perhaps the king is right: that if this man cannot convince you of God, then nobody else can.

He touched the feet of Eknath. He said, "Just forgive me.... I was going under a great misunderstanding about you. It was not just a rationalization to put your feet on the statue of God.

In the dog also you see God, and you won't allow the dog... half a mile you have run - and I have run - just to put butter on the chapati!"

Eknath said, "It doesn't look right that I should eat with butter and God should eat without butter.

And I have told him - but he is a very idiot God. This happens almost every day: as I open my food, he is hiding somewhere. You must have read in your scriptures that God is everywhere; this is the God who is everywhere, omnipresent.

"But I am also a stubborn man. This was only a half mile; one day it took ten miles. But unless I buttered the chapati, I would not let him eat it. It doesn't look right. One has to be courteous."

The man said, "Of course. I have seen your courtesy from the very morning. But I don't have any argument with you; I am going home as a theist, because I have seen the first theist in my life - all other theists were simply just using words, not knowing anything about God. You certainly know something - every gesture is indicative of it. It can be misunderstood; I myself have misunderstood it before - but now I can see."

Eknath said, "Forget all this. Come on, join me; I have got enough food for both me and you, because I knew you must be waiting there."

The man said, "But I have to take a bath."

Eknath said, "Forget all about the bath. I have told you, the river is flowing the whole day. You can take a bath anytime; there is no prohibition."

He said, "But... although I am - I used to be - an atheist, just let me go in the temple to touch the feet...."

Eknath said, "If you go into the temple... you will not find a worse man than me. First, eat; and then do whatsoever nonsense you want to do. I am feeling hungry, I cannot wait. But you are my guest - this temple is my house. Since I started living here, everybody has stopped coming in. This has been my whole life's experience: wherever I want, I enter in any temple - and soon worshipers disappear; because I do all kinds of things in the temple... you have not seen much. You just come, take your food."

Devageet, there is no hurry. Whether you wake up slowly, or whether you wake up quickly, there is eternity. How slow can you be? Try.... You cannot be eternally slow: that eternity passes by, and you are still in your bed. You will have to come out of the bed, and you will have to come out of your sleep.

Hence, don't feel any guilt, that "I am very slow in understanding." Don't compare with others. Just follow your natural course; slow or fast - but be natural. And existence loves those who are natural.

Jesus has forgotten completely one blessing: blessed are those who are natural. And my people are blessed people. No competition... everybody is going at his own pace. Somebody is resting under a tree, somebody is having a nap, somebody is fast asleep and snoring.... This is a beautiful variety. Never on the spiritual path has there been such variety.

Question 4:

Deva Surabhi, I rarely promise - but if you are absolutely certain that you will go on digging deeper and deeper to the very ultimate center of your being, I promise you I will be there to welcome you.

Because the center is one... we are different only on the periphery.

Just think of a circle and a center: from the center towards the circle many lines can go. On the periphery those lines are very distant; as they move towards the center they come closer, and closer, and closer, and closer. And those who have reached the center are all ready to welcome you.

Not only will I be there, you will also find all those people whom I have been talking about. Just reach to the center, so I can introduce you to Chuang Tzu, to Lao Tzu, to Kabir, to Gautam Buddha, to Eknath, to Hotei, to Tilopa, Naropa... unique people; every one a unique flower, with a fragrance of his own.

And it is not only a promise to Surabhi, it is a promise to you all: the day you reach the center, you will find me there ahead of you. I am already there, just waiting for you. Don't get lost on the way:

reach to the very end.

Okay, Vimal?

Yes, Osho.