This is not a place of entertainment

Fri, 8 June 1987 00:00:00 GMT
Book Title:
The Rebel
Chapter #:
am in Chuang Tzu Auditorium
Archive Code:
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Question 1:



Yog Shukla, the question that you have asked is apparently simple, but in reality is complicated and has many implications to be understood. The first thing: it is not personally concerned with your husband. The most basic thing is the structure of the Indian mind - it is the oldest mind in the world, obviously the most rotten. It has been dead for centuries; it has not functioned. It has forgotten to function at all.

The Indian contribution to humanity, as far as intelligence is concerned, is very limited. Yes, there have been a few mystics, but they also have been uncreative, unrebellious; they have not hammered against the rottenness, the deadness of the mind of this land. On the contrary, they have all been supportive of it. And the intelligentsia of this country has proved the most impotent in the whole world. It has not invented anything, it has not given any scientific insight to the world. Its foundations are not logical but superstitious.

The most amazing thing is that a few mystics like Gautam Buddha, Mahavira, Patanjali, Gora, and Kabir... these great peaks of consciousness have been born here, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because the Indian intelligence has not imbibed their spirit, it has only worshipped them, and worshipping is a way of escaping from something. By worshipping you are saying, "It is beyond us. You are special people, we are the ordinary, common humanity. At the most we can worship you." But nobody has accepted the challenge or the possibility of having the same experiences and the same exploration of their own subjectivity as any Gautam Buddha, as any Kabir, as any Farid.

But they have given a false notion to the country, which has proved immensely dangerous. Because of these few people, these few flowers, the whole country has been turned into one of the most hypocritical societies.

Everybody talks about spirituality, it seems the whole country is spiritual; and I have been around the world - I have not found a more materialist country than this. It talks about God, about soul, but that is only a facade. Deep down it thinks only of money, power, prestige. But it has a very ancient mask, so glued to its original face that it has almost become its second nature.

I have traveled all over the country for decades and I was surprised that everybody is repeating, like parrots, things which don't mean anything to them. The person does not even know the meaning of what he is saying; but he is repeating the scriptures, the VEDAS, the UPANISHADS very accurately.

That can be done by any machine - it needs no intelligence.

Because of this hypocrisy your husband has not heard me, and I don't think he has read me. I don't think he knows anything about me. Still he is very much annoyed with me.

The people who are annoyed with me are the people who don't know me. Such insincerity has entered into the very being of people that they don't give a simple consideration to the fact that, before you are annoyed with someone, you can at least give him an opportunity to explain himself to you. Then you are free to be annoyed; nobody is preventing you. But they are afraid of listening, they are afraid of coming close, they are afraid of entering the gate of this temple.

The reason is that they know very well, deep in their hearts, that if they listen to me, if they come inside the temple, they will have to drop their annoyance. They will have to drop their antagonism, they will have to drop their ego. They know they will have to accept their ignorance - that's what is hurting them.

Without coming close to me, they can remain annoyed, irritated, angry - that is simple. But, coming close to me, it is almost impossible to remain annoyed; you may not agree with me, but you cannot be annoyed, you cannot be an enemy. Disagreement is not enmity.

The fear, deep in their soul, is that they may find what I am saying agreeable - it is better not to listen to me, not to come close, not to open their hearts. The fear is very real; and this is not only with your husband, it is with millions of people. If you ask them what they know about me, if you ask them what is my approach to life, what is my philosophy, what is my attitude towards religion, they will not be able to answer a single question. They know nothing; but to protect their knowledgeability, which is impotent, it is better not to hear me because hearing me, there is a danger: they may have to change their ideas about me.

This country has become so dead and so afraid of change that for centuries it goes on and on following superstitions. Nobody raises a question, nobody asks for any evidence. There has not been any rebelliousness shown in the whole history of this land, just a kind of ready willingness to be slaves - spiritually, psychologically, socially, politically. For two thousand years this country has been under slavery, under different small tribes, which is absolutely a wonder, because the country is so big and the tribes that have ruled over it were so small. This country could have destroyed them without any difficulty, but it simply accepts everything so that it has not to change. Change seems to be the greatest fear in their minds.

Your question is, "My husband is very much annoyed..." Ask him about what? - because I don't know him, and he doesn't know me. There are some fundamental rules before you can make somebody your enemy. First, you have to be a friend; without friendship you cannot create enmity. He is absolutely ignorant about me; just provoke him, ask him what he is annoyed about?

And what is the fear in listening to me? If you are right, then by listening to me you will become more convinced of your rightness. But for thousands of years this has been the teaching in this country: don't listen to anybody who is saying something strange, different from you, because he may convince you and then come the problems of change. It seems to be comfortable to remain as you are; change seems to be arduous.

This country has become a dirty pool; it is no longer a river which continues to clean itself just by its flowing and moving into new lands, into new territories. This country has stopped all movement, perhaps five thousand years ago. It is not a contemporary land, it is lagging behind so much that it seems almost impossible that it can be made contemporary.

Ask your husband why he is annoyed with me. Have I hurt him? Have I disrespected him? Have I in any way harmed him? And if he feels that my ideology is wrong, he has to be very deeply acquainted with my ideology before he can say that. If he is not even willing to listen to me, that simply shows the impotence of his soul.

There is an ancient story of a man, whose name had become Ghantakaran because he used to hang two big bells by his ears. While walking, those bells would ring and he would not hear anybody - he did not want to be disturbed in his convictions, in his faith, in his beliefs. People have forgotten his name: Ghantakaran means a man with bells hanging by his ears. But this man is very representative of almost all the Indians. They are all "Ghantakarans," particularly your husband.

You are saying, "He is very much annoyed with you and your sannyasins, and with me, because I crossed all the limits." The Indian husband thinks that the wife is only a possession. He does not give respect to the woman as a human being. He is just an owner, a possessor; the wife is only a private property, he has purchased her. The very institution of marriage in this country is a permanent prostitution and nothing else.

Naturally he will be annoyed with you - you have proved more intelligent, more daring. You have risked your relationship, you have risked your future. You have gone ahead of him, you have proved him to be a pygmy in comparison to you. Naturally he is annoyed with you.

Husbands, particularly, have lived in this country with the idea that the woman is a slave and they are the masters. Their arrogance and egoism are such that they have been telling women, "Your god is your husband; there is no other god for you." Millions of women had to be ready to be burned with their dead husbands, because the husband was suspicious that after he has died, his woman may fall in love with somebody else. He wanted to dominate her even when he is dead, and the only way was that the wife also commits suicide.

And those women who refused lost all their dignity in the society, because the society is made by men, by the husbands. They were treated as corrupt, because if they had loved their husbands they would have jumped into the funeral pyre. They should have been burned alive - that would have been a proof that they loved the husband.

Strange, I have not found a single book - and this country has immense literature, perhaps more than any other country - in which somebody has questioned about the husband when the wife dies; because no husband has ever jumped into the funeral pyre and committed suicide with her. In fact, when the wife's dead body is burning in the fire, the husband is planning for a new marriage - just on the funeral ground, people start talking about where to find a wife for him. The old wife is still not burned completely; she is burning, and the husband is planning for a new marriage.

There is another standard for the woman, totally different from the man. He is the master, he has not to prove anything. The woman has to prove her loyalty, her faithfulness; the man is not asked to prove anything.

So your husband is bound to be annoyed with you because you have proved more intelligent, more alert, more of a rebel. He has not the guts, and you have guts; this must be hurting him immensely.

But it is now your task to challenge him. If he is annoyed with me, ask him, "What are the reasons?"

And tell him, "If you have any courage as a man, then come to this temple, ask your questions.

Unless you prove that your thinking is right, you have no authority to be annoyed - you need to apologize."

But he must be a superstitious man. "He comes to the ashram with me," you say, "but he does not like the idea of listening to you. He comes to the gates of the temple, but he never wants to look upon the living idol. Master, what prevents him?" - his Indian heritage, his dead past, all his dead ancestors, his forefathers. He is carrying a great, mountainous burden on his shoulders.

This is not a place of entertainment; once he gets in here, he is going for surgery without knowing it. My whole effort is to cut people from the past, the dead, the shadows of the dead, and to open them up for the future - to create rebels.

I don't give any belief, I give you only a deep longing and thirst for truth so that you can seek and find it on your own. Unless you find the truth by your own self, all your knowledge is simply a burden, a poison, a force destructive of your intelligence and your very soul.

But the whole country lives with the idea that they are the only people in the world who are spiritual and the rest of the world is materialist; and I have never seen anybody more materialistic than the Indians. They cling to money as their very soul. They cling to everything worldly, which their saints go on condemning. They worship the saints, and they hope that in some future life they will also renounce the world. But right now, they are as possessive of things, of properties, of power, as I have not seen around the world in any other people. And they live with this egoistic idea that this is the only land that is spiritual - just because they have produced a few mystics.

Just because a land produces a few scientists does not mean that the whole land has become scientists. Just because a country produces a few great poets does not mean that the whole country has become poetic. The same is true about the mystics: just because a few flowers have blossomed down the centuries, it does not mean that you are a garden.

You are a desert, utterly dry and without any juice, and you are annoyed with me because I am trying to create some oases, some gardens, some people who have juice, some people who are really spiritual - without being against materialism. There is no need; one can be spiritual and use all that matter provides. One can use all that which science and technology produce, for one's spiritual growth. But they will not listen to me.

You can see here people from all countries.... I am a foreigner in my own country - it is very rare to find an Indian, and if they come, their purposes are not for a spiritual search. A few Indians have come to steal things, a few Indians come to have a lazy life, not doing anything and asking for all the comforts. And they write letters to me that they have come to the ashram just to meditate. We have no objection, you can meditate - but don't ask for food, and don't ask for clothes, and don't ask for a roof, because that is not part of meditation. Just meditate.

And what is your meditation? - because you have come here to meditate, and others have come to make houses for you and bring money for your comforts. You will simply repeat your old idiotic chanting, which is not meditation at all. You cannot participate in my meditations; your inhibitions are such that, because women are also here, you are afraid, trembling inside - it shows your sexuality and sensuality, which are repressed.

A few Indians come because they think that here they can live an uninhibited life and the society will not know about it. But their reasons are never spiritual.

It is a strange phenomenon, but perhaps there is some undercurrent of logical and rational reasoning behind it. Because they have condemned the world for centuries, they have not improved the world, and they have not improved their own richness. The whole country is poor. Fifty percent of the country is going to die by the end of this century, and when five hundred million people die, the remaining ones will not be able to live either. What kind of life will it be when you are surrounded by corpses and there will be no one even to take those corpses to the funeral grounds? And all kinds of diseases will spread. But they will not listen to me.

Thirty-five years ago, I started telling Indian people that it is time they stopped producing so many children. At that time the population of the country was only four hundred million. But I was stoned, my meetings were disturbed, efforts to kill me were made - and they never listened to what I was saying. Now they have doubled the population, more than doubled, and by the end of this century - just thirteen more years - India will have the largest population in the world.

For the first time it will go ahead of China; up to now China has had the largest population, but they have come to their senses and they have started planning. The lowest estimate for India is one billion people, and the highest estimate is one billion and eight hundred million people. It seems to be inconceivable how this country is going to survive at all. It does not need to explode any nuclear bombs, it will destroy itself by producing more children.

But they were against me because children are gifts of God. There is no proof of any God; and if God has any intelligence, then he cannot go on increasing the population. Either he is an imbecile, retarded, or just another Indian.

The landlord had robbed the poor farmer's daughter of her virginity, but he wanted to be just, so he sent for the mother of the girl to come to him. He said to the mother, "You must know, I can't marry your daughter, but I wish to compensate her. I will settle five thousand rupees on the child and give a further two thousand rupees to your daughter. For yourself, I have five hundred rupees."

The mother was left a little breathless. "The blessings of all the saints be on you. The blessings of all the gods be on you. The blessings of all the sages," and she paused as an awful thought struck her. "Ah, heavens, sir," she said, "if she has a miscarriage, will you give her another chance?"

Money is all. In the name of character, it is all hypocrisy. Even those you think are saints have their hidden side. The most arduous and self-torturing saints are the naked monks of the Jainas. They have renounced everything, even clothes.

Just a few years ago two naked saints were found near Calcutta beating each other, so they were brought to the police station and asked, "What is the matter? You don't have anything, so what are you fighting for?"

The younger one, the disciple, revealed the fact that all Jaina monks carry a small woolen brush just to clean the ground where he is going to sit - woolen so that no ants or anything are killed, soft wool. But they had made the handle of that brush hollow, and they were carrying hundred rupee notes inside. The fighting started because the disciple was not ready to have equal shares; he had more money than the master.

The Jainas of Calcutta tried to hush up the case, and it is very easy in India: they just bribed the police. The saints and the police are not different; they bribed the journalists so they wouldn't publish it. One of my friends wrote me that, just to protect their prestige, the Jainas have not allowed those saints to be exposed. But those who have renounced everything are still carrying money, are still carrying the desire to have more, are still ready to fight, hit each other, be violent.

It is a strange country: it has forgotten all the great teachings of the mystics, it lives following the stupid priests who know nothing as far as experience is concerned. And they are against me, because I have been exposing them for thirty-five years continuously.

The richest man in India, Jugal Kishor Birla, had offered me a blank check if I would preach Hinduism around the world. He would make every arrangement, pay all the expenses. I told him, "You are talking to the wrong man. I will expose your Hinduism; I cannot preach it. You can keep your blank check for somebody else."

He could not believe it. He said, "I'm willing to spend millions of rupees for you."

I said, "Millions or billions don't make any difference. I will say only what I see as right, and I will condemn whatever is wrong, to whomever it belongs - Hindus or Mohammedans or Christians, I don't care."

All the religions are annoyed with me, but their annoyance shows that they don't have any answers to my questions; whatever I am saying, they are incapable of refuting it.

The pope, every year, declares a blacklist of books that Catholics should not read. All my books are on the pope's blacklist of books that Catholics should not read. One of the publishers of England, Sheldon Press, published eight of my books; the manager was very much interested in what I was saying. I was not aware that it was a deception: Sheldon Press is not an independent press, it is part of England's church, meant to promote Christianity - they had created it as if it is an independent publisher, not a Christian publisher.

As the archbishop of England became aware that the manager published eight of my books, he freaked out. Immediately, all those eight books were withdrawn from the market. I was informed that now they will not be able to publish any of my books, and the books that they have published, they have withdrawn from the market.

Then sannyasins found out the reason - because those books were selling so well. The manager explained to them, "I am sorry. It is really a Christian press to propagate Christianity. Without their knowledge, I published those eight books because I love those books. But now my job is at stake, so I have to withdraw them."

We asked that he give those books to our center at cost price; the archbishop was not willing - they should be destroyed! So they were sold to a company which purchases wastepaper and recycles it.

They suffered a loss, but they destroyed the books.

It is going to be one individual against the whole world; and a few fellow travelers who are courageous enough to be with someone who is going to be constantly harassed by governments in every possible way, by religions in every possible way.

Ten Christian associations have put a case against me in the court in Kanpur, because I said that there is nothing holy in the Holy Bible - on the contrary, it is five hundred pages of pure pornography.

And I am simply talking about facts, because the Holy Bible is there and anybody can open it and read it. Ten Christian associations together put the case in a court where the judge is a Christian, so an unbailable arrest warrant was immediately issued against me.

We had to fight immediately in the high court of Allahabad for a stay order, and take the case into the high court. It is so simple that I don't need any advocate to argue the case. I can just go on reading those five hundred pages, and ask the judge, "Are these pornographic or not? And if these are not pornographic, then there is nothing pornographic in the whole world's literature."

And this is the situation not only with the Bible; the Hindu PURANAS are far worse - so ugly and obscene. But to say anything of truth is to create an antagonism in the ignorant masses who don't read their PURANAS, who don't read their Bible. The priests only go on talking about the beautiful passages; those five hundred pages are not mentioned.

The Jews avoid, from their TORAH, the Song of Solomon, because it is so sensuous, so sexual that they feel ashamed. But it is the only beautiful, the only artistic, aesthetic thing in their whole book.

They avoid talking about it; it is not mentioned in their synagogues. They can neither take it out, because it is in their holy book, nor can they accept it, because it goes against their inhibited mind.

It is purely a love song, so juicy that perhaps there is nothing to parallel it in the whole literature of mankind. Each word has a sensuality, an aliveness. How it entered into their holy scripture nobody knows.

In the Hindu PURANAS... it is so obvious a fact, but nobody is going to talk about it.

It is my destiny to be condemned by the whole world. Your husband is not an exception, he is just an ordinary part of the ignorant masses. But you have taken a courageous step; now try to bring your husband closer to me. And one thing is certain: he is henpecked, because he comes up to the gate to leave you. You just have to create a little tantrum, and he will come inside to listen to me.

Just act a little bit, nag him every day, harass him in every possible way, don't leave him in peace for a single moment. No husband can defeat a wife - that much is an absolute scientific fact.

Question 2:




Satyadharma, last night I received your note asking that your question should be returned because you were afraid I may hit you. So a few things for you and for all: once you have given the question to me, you cannot ask for it back. Secondly, I don't hit everybody: I hit only very special people like Dhyan Om, who has turned into a coconut. I have to hit, and the person who gets the hit should be grateful, because I am taking every trouble to hit him. I hit only when I see somebody deserves it, has earned it, is worthy of it.

I will not hit each and every person, only very special people. Dhyan Om has something unique in him that has to be brought out; so if it is necessary, I will hit him again and again. But each hit is out of love and out of compassion; no one should take it as an exposure before everybody. You are here in a commune of friends and fellow travelers. Nobody is going to take advantage of your vulnerability or your exposure. In fact, everybody will feel enriched because he also has something similar - perhaps not in such a great measure - and he can throw it away. Seeing how I have been hitting Dhyan Om, you should feel more loving towards him, more compassionate.

Between you and me there should not be any secrets, and you should not be afraid of other sannyasins. So although you have asked that the question should be withdrawn, I have refused to withdraw it. And the most interesting thing is that there is nothing in your question which needs a hit.

But I can understand why you became afraid. You became afraid that I am going to hit you because your question is only intellectual. It is a beautiful question; it contains my whole message. I was not going to hit you, but now I have to hit; otherwise you will feel frustrated.

Your question is only an intellectual question. I will read it and you can see that it has not come out of your experience. Unless a question comes out of experience, it is meaningless; howsoever beautifully put, howsoever articulate, it does not carry any significance without experience. It should come from the deepest silences of your heart, not from your mind.

You are saying, "I have heard you say that the ultimate creativity is in creating fulfillment." Have you done anything in that direction? You have heard me saying it thousands of times; how many more times would you like to hear it? The longer you go on hearing it, the more you become deaf to it.

You become accustomed to hearing it.

If something appeals to you, if something rings bells in your heart, then don't wait, don't postpone, do something; experiment and experience whether what I have been saying has any validity or not.

Your question is, "... that the ultimate creativity is in creating fulfillment. And that the highest art one can learn is the art of loving, and that the ultimate creativity and the highest art are born out of a knack - meditation. Master, isn't this the whole of the rebel?" Are you simply going to ask questions and listen to the answers? Or are you going to transform those answers into reality, into experiencing?

Your question is absolutely beautiful, but just out of the mind. You have not tried to find any creativity, and you have not been experiencing any fulfillment through it. You have not entered into the world of the art of loving, and you have not tried meditations either. And of course the rebel will not be born unless you have meditation, a creativity, a deep fulfillment, and a great love overflowing in you.

Your question is beautiful; alas, it is only from the mind. If it had been the same question from the heart and from your experience, you would not have feared and you would not have asked that it should be taken back. What made you afraid? - just the fact that you are repeating like a parrot whatever you have heard.

Here you are not just to hear.

Here you have to go through the transformation.

Here you have to go through the fire so that all rubbish is burned, all the old and rotten is destroyed, and the new, the fresh, is born.

That new and the fresh is the rebel.

The local church minister had heard that the harmless little weekly parties he had organized for his young members were really orgies. So he wangled himself an invitation to see what was going on.

After a few harmless games and a little background music, things started to heat up, and more and more people began to undress. The minister retired to a bedroom to pray furiously. He had not been there for very long when a smashing girl walked in, stark naked. "Do you want me?" asked the parson.

"Not particularly," she replied. "But I drew you in a raffle."

Your religious leaders, your so-called philosophical thinkers, particularly the priests, are articulate in giving beautiful words, writing beautiful treatises; but deep down they are carrying all the inhibitions of the common man. The priests are the only people in the world who know nothing about God.

They are professionals; God is their profession. They know nothing about human nature. They know all the ideals that have to be imposed on man, and deep down they are also human beings.

So when he sees a beautiful, naked, smashing girl he forgets the prayer; otherwise he is furiously praying. Why furiously? That furiousness is to avoid the inner repressed sexuality. He is creating a great noise around himself, so he can forget what is arising in him. But when the girl walks in the room naked, he forgets the prayer and immediately asks, "Do you want me?"

What happened to the furiousness and the prayer? Whatever you do, you can never get rid of your nature. It is always there; it just needs the right opportunity and it will be expressed.

It was quite right for the girl to reply, "Not particularly, but unfortunately I drew you in a raffle."

This must have hurt his ego immensely. First, he forgot his prayer; secondly, the girl says, "Not particularly"; thirdly, the girl says she has won him in a raffle. The priest must have been in a great shock.

As civilization has grown, there are more heart failures than ever before. And you will be amazed to know that nobody in the whole history of man has ever suffered a heart failure while making love.

On the contrary, medical science says that the people who go on making love will not suffer any heart failure; it is the greatest protection against heart failure - but very strange.

Celibates have more heart failures. What happens, what goes wrong in their mechanism? Their hearts and their minds go on becoming separate and farther away from each other. The heart remains natural, but the mind becomes filled with great ideas. It is dangerous to have great ideas in the mind, of which the heart is not even aware. Those great ideas and the unaware heart will create a rift in you, a split, a tension that can grow to the extent of a heart failure.

If you have a great idea in your mind, let it sink deep into your heart; otherwise it is dangerous for your life. You have heard about creativity, you have heard about fulfillment, you have heard about love, you have heard about meditation... are you going to keep all these filed in your memory system? Then you are creating a rift between your mind and your heart, which is one of the greatest dangers. The heart remains unfulfilled, and the mind never does anything else - it is only a filing system. It simply files your ideas, keeps a record.

It is the heart which brings transformations.

So if you are intelligent, being convinced of a certain idea, don't wait; don't let it be simply filed. Try to make it a part of your life, of your blood, of your bones, of your heart, of your marrow. Unless an idea becomes alive in you, throbbing in your heart, it is just a burden - a dangerous burden. Then it is better not to have it, because the empty mind is closer to the heart.

When the mind has great ideals it becomes a great ego and it starts having a sense of mastery. But it is a slave, it is not a master. It is a servant - a good servant - but the worst master.

Your heart has to be the master, and your mind has to be a servant. Then there will be a harmony between the two - a harmony that will bring great rejoicing, great contentment, great peace, a peace that passeth understanding.

But don't simply ask questions from the mind. This is not a university where knowledge is imparted; it is a mystery school where experience has to be transferred and communicated.

Allow your heart, be vulnerable, open, so that it can beat with my heart. I am just an excuse, because my heart is beating with the heart of the whole universe. It will be too big of a jump for you to let your heart beat with the universe; it will be more simple and a smaller step to beat with my heart. Be in harmony with me, and suddenly one day you will realize that I was just an excuse and your heart is beating with the universe: you are in harmony with the trees and the mountains and the stars. You have come home.

This harmoniousness will create the greatest rebellion in you - rebellion that cannot be suppressed, a rebellion that cannot be destroyed, a rebellion that is going to spread like a wildfire. It has never happened before. You should feel blessed to be pioneers of a great revolution which is going to give birth to a new man and a new humanity.

Okay, Maneesha?

Yes, Beloved Master.

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"I am most unhappy man.
I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated.
The growth of the nation, therefore, and all out activities
are in the hands of a few men.

We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most
completely controlled amd dominated governments by free opinion,
no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority,
but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of
dominant men."

-- President Woodrow Wilson