[NOTE: This discourse will be in the book "India Coming Back Home", which has not yet been published, as of August 1992.
Interview by Punjab Keshari
BHAGWAN, WE ARE FROM PUNJAB KESHARI, A HINDI NEWSPAPER FROM GALLANTER(*)
ON DIRECTIONS FROM OUR PAPER, WE HAVE COME HERE TO REQUEST YOU TO ENLIGHTEN US ON SOME QUESTIONS, WITH YOUR KIND PERMISSION TO WRITE IN PAPERS.
YOU HAD COME TO AMERICA FOR TREATMENT. HAVE YOU COMPLETELY RECOVERED?
WHAT ABOUT YOUR BACKACHE?
It is worse. I had almost recovered by the controlled environment, but the American government did in twelve days destroyed four years' work. My diseases are not something which can be completely cured. In a controlled atmosphere, they will not show. For example, if I am sitting in a certain position, then my back will not hurt; so certain chairs have been made which I use only.
Then there is no back pain. But in any other chair, the back pain is there. And the doctors have said that I have to live with it. It is not something that they can do about.
Twelve days in the jails, they tried in every possible way to make my back worse.
They gave me only hard steel benches to sit. I asked them a pillow which was denied. I told them, "You know my situation about the back; and you are giving me a steel bench to sit; and not for few minutes, for the whole night. I am asking for a pillow or a blanket so I can lie down." No blanket, no pillow. The man never returned back. For twelve days continuously they were trying to hurt me as much indirectly as possible. In the courts they will put me in chains; hands in chains, legs in chains. My back also, particularly at the point where it hurts, and then they will chain my hand also with the back chain. And then they will drive the car in such a way that as much they can hurt me: sudden stops, sudden rush, sudden turns.
My another medical problem was allergies. That too is incurable. It is inheritance.
For certain things I am allergic - wool, perfume, any kind of smell, dust, smoke, particularly tobacco smoke. In the jails they managed everything. They will put me in the dirtiest cell, where there was nothing but dust; even to walk into it was to raise dust. They will give me the dirtiest blankets, and I told them "I don't want these blankets because they are woollen and I cannot use them." They said that they don't have any cotton blankets, which is a lie; because later on when it went to the press that they are not giving me cotton blankets, immediately they appeared. The pillows appeared. Just one day before they were non-existent.
They will put me with twelve other cell mates around me. Perhaps particularly chosen because all were chain smokers. That was a rare combination that all twelve people with whom I am put are all chain smokers. From the morning to the middle of the night they are smoking. So my eyes was continuously with tears, because that smoke I cannot tolerate. My throat was choking, my breathing was difficult, and I was afraid that any moment it may trigger my asthma attacks.
They put me in a cell, and in twelve days' time, which was absolutely unnecessary because I had committed no crime, they have not even served any arrest warrant to me. They did not show any cause why I am being arrested. Just on twelve points of loaded guns they arrested me, a man who has nothing except a robe and open hands; and they will not answer. They knew that they have no case against me. So what they did, they had arrested six other peoples with me on the same plane. We were going to visit a sannyasin's house in the mountains, just for two-three weeks, just to rest there. In the court they released the six persons because there was no case. And if the six persons are released, why I am not released?
For me the government attorney, U.S. attorney, insisted that my question of bail will be decided in Oregon. That seems absurd, if six persons with me have been arrested here and their bail can be arranged here, then why particularly me?
But the reason was, that they wanted as long time to reach to Oregon. It is only six hours' time. But they managed the plane that takes their prisoners from one place to another; even the pilot told me that he had never come across such a thing, "Suddenly as we come near Oregon we receive orders, move to other direction. They are simply harassing you." So I have to be left into some other prison; in twelve days they change five prisons.
In one prison they put me with a high-risk confirmed herpes case. The cell was meant for two persons, but it has been allotted to the person for six months.
Nobody else was sharing it. They gave me that cell. Even the man himself felt that this is absolutely ugly. He is dying of herpes and everything can be infectious. He did not know much English; he was from Cuba; but still he wrote a small note that, "Bhagwan, they are trying to harass you. I am suffering from herpes. I will try my best to clean everything, but what can I do?"
Then another inmate informed me that you immediately should call the jailer, that this is absolutely inhuman. The man is in such a situation that the doctor has not allowed anybody else, and the doctor allows me; the doctor was present when I was put in that cell. It took almost twenty hours for them to change my cell. And I told the doctor that, "Doctor, you are part of the crime. At least you should be out of the politicians and their dirty tactics. You knew perfectly well this man is dying with herpes; everybody knows in the jail; you were present when I was put into it."
He said, "What we can do, we are small people."
In every jail they will put me between two television sets on both the sides of the cell, which will run full-speed loudly, six in the morning till twelve in the night.
And then they must have managed that when the televisions will become silent, then the inmates will start talking, cell to cell. They didn't allow me to sleep for a single moment for twelve days.
They did everything that they could indirectly, because they knew all my diseases; and to the press they will, because the press was continuously after them - the press and the news media helped me immensely, otherwise they would have kept me for two three months without trial, without arrest warrant, without any show cause.
But because the press was surrounding every jail, wherever they were keeping me, hundreds of television stations, newspapers, radios, and they were so much afraid of the media that they could not do anything directly, because they knew that if they do anything, even if they touch my body, it will be soon around the world and the whole world is watching.
In one jail what they did; they told me, the U.S. Marshall himself told me to sign under the name David Washington. I said, "That is not my name, and you are asking me to do something illegal. You are supposed to be the Department of Justice, law-imposing authority. Just please tell me under what law this comes?
And I can see the point, and you know it, that on the board will be David Washington, so nobody knows that I am here in the jail. So whatever you want to do with me, even if you want to kill me you can kill me; and nobody will ever discover what happened to me, because I was never in the jail. So told him, "I cannot write, that is not my name. If you want to write, you can fill the form. I will sign." And this was knowingly I did to make him fill the form in his handwriting, so it becomes a document, a proof, and I signed in Hindi in my name, so he looked at it and he could not figure it out, what it is. So the signature is mine, the name is David Washington which has nothing to do with the signature. And I told him that, "Don't try to be too cunning and too clever. By the morning you will see that David Washington and my name are on the television all over the world; because there was a girl sitting in the corner who just waved me. She had traveled with me on the plane and she told me that she was going to be released tomorrow morning. She immediately informed the press media, which was all around the jail as she was released, so tomorrow morning immediately it was all over the press, radio, television, that they are trying this strategy. So that even if they kill me, nobody can find where I disappeared.
As they saw that it is already on the television and already in the newspapers they immediately changed me to another jail; because now it was risky to keep me in that jail. For twelve days continuously, which was absolutely meaningless just to bring me to Oregon, where just in a day I was released because there was no point against me. I have not done anything.
But they punished a man without proving his guilt. That is absolutely against the democracy. Innocence needs no proof; but guilt needs proof, and without proving somebody guilty you cannot punish him.
I lost eight pounds of weight in twelve days, because the food was rotten; I could not eat it. I could not sleep. They won't allow me even to have a little walk in the corridor. No, it is not possible.
So I had gone with the health problems, but my health problems were such that they needed no medical treatment. They simply needed a certain climate, which should not humid, which should be cool and dry, and that's why I was asking for Kutch. But Indian government won't listen. They were worried that if I have Kutch, then so many foreigners will be coming there and Pakistan is so close - I had even offered them that nobody will be coming, just for few days, and the palace is empty, nobody lives there; and the palace coincidentally was made for the Maharaja, who had the same problems as I have; so they have chosen that place particularly for him. It is non-humid, it is cool, it is dry. And nobody is living there, just give it to me. Nobody will be coming there.
But, bureaucracy is bureaucracy. It has no heart; it is just a mechanism. And the people who have heart and are working in it, slowly slowly become robots.
It was this situation that I had to go America, because Oregon has the same climate as Kutch. Otherwise Oregon has no interest for me; it is a desert. But it helped me. For four years I was free of back pain, I was free of all allergies, I was free of asthma attacks. But, that does not mean they were cured. That simply means the controlled atmosphere. But once I am out of the controlled atmosphere, immediately the trouble is there.
But these twelve days have been of immense help. First, I could see that a country like America, which pretends to be the biggest democracy in the world, is not democratic. It is simply a hypocrisy.
Secondly I could see that American bureaucracy and government is not only deceiving the whole world; it is also deceiving its own people. The people are beautiful. They are just as loving as anywhere else, perhaps more. But they are not aware what is happening behind walls.
Thirdly, I became aware that in five jails, which were the biggest jails in America, not a single white prisoner. It seems all the crimes are committed by the blacks; that no white commits any crime. It made me clear that those jails are not for criminals, but for those people who they want to repress. And I came across people in the jails who said, "We have been six months here, nine months here, waiting for the trial." Pre-trial arrest is absolutely inhuman. You should bring the person to the court first, and if the court sentences him that's perfectly okay. But you are already punishing him. You have punished nine months a person, without even telling him what he has done. And all the jails were full of black people; totally, not a single exception.
Fourthly I saw that the inmates in the jail who are thought to be criminals are far more human, far more loving, than the people who are pretending to be democrats, humanitarian, and are trying save the whole world. I would ask for a toothpaste, or for a brush, or for a comb, or for a soap, and it will take two days that a brush will appear. But there is no toothpaste. Then the toothpaste will appear.
But when I asked the jail authorities, the inmates heard and they started bringing things. They say, "Bhagwan this is absolutely fresh, we have not used it, and those people are really ugly with you because when we ask they immediately give us, and when you ask it takes two days for them to bring a toothbrush." So I got everything from the inmates; the soap, the toothbrush, the comb, or anything that I needed; not from the authorities.
And they are all so happy that I am with them, and they said, "Now that we don't think this place as a jail. If you are here it has become a temple for us."
Small gestures of love; somebody will bring a flower which he has picked while he has gone for the lunch, and I saw the other world that perhaps exists in every country, the world of the criminals. They are our brothers and our sisters, and we have put them in such a situation that they are almost another world, they are not part of this world, nobody knows about them, what is happening to them. If they can try to torture me, who was in the eyes of the whole world; thousands of telegrams every day, thousands of telephones every day, and the whole jail was surrounded by the press people; if they can torture me, or try to torture me, what they will be doing with these poor people, who nobody knows, who nobody will ever inquire whether they are alive or dead?
So my health they have put backwards, but I am recovering. It is not - because these diseases are not something that can kill somebody, just you can harass, torture. Once the atmosphere is changed, the symptoms disappear.
So there is no problem. But it has been a good experience to me, and it made me clear that if there is going to be a third world war, it is not going to be between Soviet Union and America, it is going to be between the whole world and America. Because Soviet Union at least is straight forward. It does not pretend to be a democracy. It declares itself to be the dictatorship of the proletariat. America declares itself to be the democracy, and hidden behind this mask is just a fascist regime.
They tried to kill me. When they could not manage - the first judge in Carolina they managed, she was a woman, she was just a magistrate, and she was hoping to be promoted to be a judge; so they pressurized her, that if you release this man then your chances for judges are gone. Because it is absurd to release my six people who were with me, and just to keep me. And without proving anything; even the U.S. Attorney said that "We have not been able to prove anything." Still she will not bail me out. Even the jailer, the sheriff, they told me that she is just pressurized because she knows if she bails you out, her chances for being a judge are gone.
In Oregon I was before a federal judge, and he immediately could see that there is no case. He bailed me out. But as I went to the jail to take my clothes and things from there, I was surprised to see that the whole ground floor was empty, which was always full of officers and people, and clerks, and the whole department of the jail. I asked the person who was taking me in, "What is the matter? Is there some holiday today or something?"
He said, "No, nothing, it is just changing the shift."
But I said, "I am not a fool. Changing a shift I have seen before, twelve days I have been in the jail. Unless the person comes, the old person cannot go. This gap in a jail, that everybody goes because the shift is changing, and the new persons have not come yet seems to be absolutely absurd.
He said, "I don't know. You just sit here, and I will find my boss to sign the papers, and you take your clothes." This was for the first time in twelve days they left me alone. Otherwise, even though I was completely chained, hands, feet, waist, two men with guns were always with me. This was the first time I was not chained, and I was left alone in the room, and the man went locking the room. I had no idea what is happening. After few minutes he came, he gave my clothes, and I was released.
As I reached my hotel, the news came that a bomb has been found in the place where I was sitting. Now in a jail, who can put a bomb? Ordinarily nobody can even enter - three electrical gates you have to pass first - except the authorities themselves; and now it is clear why the whole ground floor was empty, and why the man left me alone and went out. Later on I discovered that no signature of the boss was needed. Only my signature was needed, because I am receiving my things back. That was the whole thing; what the boss has to do with it?
So they were not able to find out what time the court will release me, and the bomb must be a time bomb. So they just guessed, and their guess missed. Now these type of people are simply fascist. There is no other word for these people.
And seeing this situation - and it was not one day, four and a half years continuously they had been harassing us in every possible way, and the reason for harassment was that we have succeeded in changing the desert into an oasis which was lying for fifty years dead. Nobody was ready to purchase it. And it was not a small land. It was eighty four thousand acres, We purchased it, we changed it, we made roads, and we never took any support from anybody outside. Our own sannyasins did everything.
We made reservoirs, we made lakes, we were turning it into green. The desert was changed completely into a new, beautiful city. We made houses for five thousand people, winterized tents for twenty thousand people, because every festival there were coming twenty thousand people, and we had to invent a special tent, which can be air-conditioned, which can be heated even in winter when there is snow there is no problem. The tent will do. So when there was annual festival, it was a fairy land. All the hills and the whole land was full of people.
In the commune we had no government. It was the first experiment in the whole history of man where five thousand people were living without any government.
Also it was the first experiment that we were not using any money inside the commune. I have not seen a dollar bill. Everybody who needed anything was supplied by the commune, so everybody according to his need; we managed absolute self-sufficiency about food, vegetables, fruits, milk products. I even managed to supplement something which all vegetarian in the world will have sooner or later to accept. The vegetarian food lacks few proteins and those are the proteins that make your intelligence grow. It is not a coincidence that not a single Jaina who had been vegetarians for thousands of years has not received a single Nobel prize, has not contributed any discovery, any invention. For that you need some intelligence, but those proteins are missing. The three people who got Nobel prize in India, all three are non-vegetarians; Korana(*), Raman, Rabindranath, all are non-vegetarians. That means not a single vegetarians in the whole world has received any award for his intellect. I asked my medical people, because we had our own hospital, our own school, our own university, and we figured out that a non-fertilized egg is vegetarian, because it has no life, and it has all the proteins that are missing in a vegetarian diet. So this was the first vegetarian community which was using eggs, non-fertilized, and making vegetarian food complete. Now there is no need to be in any way eat meat and kill living people, living animals.
Seeing the commune, the American politicians became afraid. It was far higher a communism than what exists in Soviet Union. We had five hundred cars for the sannyasins to use; anybody can use. But nobody wanted to use cars because we had one hundred air-conditioned buses running continuously; after each five minutes you can get a bus, so why bother having a private car and parking and this and that, and petrol. Just get into bus, which are continuously running. So we had to sell three hundred cars because nobody was using them.
Thousands of my friends around the world have presented to me ninety-three Rolls Royces, because the seat of a particular model of Rolls Royce was good for my back. But I need only one, there is no need for ninety-three. And I don't even possess that one; that too is to be possessed by the commune. So I have told that make a trust in the commune, and anybody who wants to use, let him use. What I am going to do with ninety-three Rolls Royces. I had hundreds of watches presented to me from different parts of the world. I had all given to the commune. Use whenever you want to use, whenever you are going for some public contact, use something beautiful - take a beautiful car. I myself am using only the watches that have been made by my own sannyasins. This watch is made by my own sannyasins. It costs nothing, because these are simple stones, not diamonds. Just the craftsman is such that one can be deceived that they are diamonds. The same watch is quarter million dollars from Piaget; and this watch has no value. But I cannot sell it any value, because it has been made with love.
And love cannot be sold.
But newspapers have some strange idea of distorting things. I don't own a single Rolls Royce, yet the whole world thinks I own ninety-three Rolls Royces. I have not brought a single one, because they don't belong to me, they belong to the commune. They think I have hundreds of watches, diamond and ruby and emerald; but I have left all to the commune because they belong to the commune.
And whatever use they want to do, they can use.
Seeing this whole situation, that the five thousand people can live in such a beautiful loving way, helping each other in every possible way, working twelve, fourteen hours a day and still having energy enough to dance in the night, sing, play their guitars, and in the morning they will begin with meditation, and in the night they will end with dancing. People started coming, news media started coming every day. The story was spreading, that a desert can be transformed, not a single person is unemployed, not a single person is a beggar. America has thirteen million beggars, which don't have any houses, no food, no clothes. They sleep on the streets, and they die on the streets.
The quality of our food was far superior than any American home, because we had only one kitchen for five thousand people, and it was a joy to see five thousand people eating together, laughing together.
To me, this should be the real spirit of communism, not forced, but an evolution out of peaceful, loving people, who can see that things don't matter; neither money matters. What matters is love, what matters is a communion.
This became a problem for them. They wanted to destroy it, because if this commune remains; then the people had started asking them, if these people without any power can do this, then why you cannot do with all the power in the world? So we became a great problem for them. This commune has to be erased, otherwise it will create comparison.
Two hundred street people had come to the commune, and we accepted them.
They were all black. And they were so happy to have a home for the first time in their life, and to be respected as human beings. They had everything that everybody else had, so no question of comparison, that somebody is higher and somebody is lower. There was no bureaucracy.
If any government was really democratic, it should have supported the commune, helped the commune, allowed people to visit the commune and see how it functions so that you can also make small communes in your towns and function in the same way. But the government is not really democratic, and I would like to say to Soviet Union that you are unnecessarily forcing people to be equal. This can be done without force.
And if you can do it without force you will gain tremendous respect from all over the world. (b196) MY NEXT QUESTION IS: DO YOU SUSPECT ANY GOVERNMENT HAND BEHIND MA ANAND SHEELA'S FALLING APART FROM YOU?
There is a possibility that American government may have done this, because I was in silence for three and a half years, and in isolation. Sheela and her group was taking care of the commune. It is possible that the government may have bribed them to leave the commune, so it falls apart, because they were the people who were taking care of everything. They left, but the commune continued. Their leaving did not make any difference, because people were intelligent enough.
Fortunately only intelligent people are interested in me. So everything was perfectly okay. Looking backwards, it seems that there is a possibility, because Sheela stopped purchasing even food, or other necessary things which are needed to store for the winter - clothes and other things - she stopped before she left. The day she left there was no food at all. It seems pre-planned to create a havoc, a chaos. Clothes are not there, food is not there. She left the commune in great debt; perhaps twenty million dollars. And her secretary says that she has a bank account in Switzerland of twenty million dollars.
So there is a possibility that they somehow managed that if the management, and the whole management, twenty people, with Sheela escaped, without giving any reason why they are going, without even seeing me for the last time to say goodbye. The government may have hoped that this way the commune may fall apart. But it didn't happen. People managed it, and managed it far more beautifully.
That was even more troublesome to them; they had failed in that attempt. Then their only way was somehow to arrest me. But, I had not committed anything that they can arrest me. I was not on any post, I was not even a member of the commune. I had no powers. I was just a guest living outside the commune. So what they could say that goes against me. And they did not try. For two years they had been trying. Rumors were coming that they want to arrest me. I said, that's perfectly okay. Just few days before they arrested my I told my people that that's perfectly okay. If they want to arrest me, let them arrest me. With my both hands chained, the world should know what America really is.
But they did not come to the commune. They were afraid that to arrest me will mean to kill five thousand sannyasins. Without that they will not be able to arrest me. And this will be a great damage to the image of America. So they were waiting that if I am sometimes outside the commune, that will be the right opportunity. And that's what happened; when I went to visit my friends in North Carolina, immediately on the airport they arrested me. (b280) YOU HAVE DECLARED ABANDONING OF RAJNEESHISM. WILL YOU NOT IMPART TEACHINGS OR GIVE BLESSINGS IN FUTURE, MAYBE NEWCOMERS OR THE OLD ONES?
No, I have abandoned Rajneeshism as a religion, because that was not my idea.
That was created whilst I was in silence and not speaking. It was the idea of Sheela and her group. The book "Rajneeshism" was not written by me. They wanted to create a religion, because only religion could give Sheela a status of a high priestess. And they wanted me never to speak again. And there is a possibility they may have even killed me, because they tried to kill my personal physician, they tried to poison my caretaker. And these were efforts that they wanted their physician to be replaced, who can inject me any time. They wanted their caretaker to take care of me. And she was persistently against that I should start speaking.
I said, I am a man of the moment. When I wanted to go in silence, I went. Now I want to say things which are not said yet, and I want to complete my whole way of life, give it the last touch, so that it is a complete philosophy. Even if it goes against my health it doesn't matter, because what I will do with the health? If I can live two years more without speaking that does not make any sense. I would rather prefer to live two years less, but I would like to complete my philosophy.
And when I saw that this book has been published as a catechism, like the Christians, I was not happy.
I said, "This is absolutely nonsense. My whole life I have been against organized religions. In my four hundred books I have been speaking against organized religions. To me religion is an individual affair. It is so sacred that it cannot be organized. You cannot organize love. How can you organize religion, which is a higher quality of love towards existence. It is an individual search. You can go inwards yourself, alone. You cannot take anybody there. And this is the greatest gift nature has given to you. It is your absolute privacy, your privilege. Nobody can trespass it. Organized religions are all bogus, they are borrowed. They don't have any reality in their hands, any truth in their hands. This has been my whole teaching, and you created a religion in my name?"
So I burned the book, and declared that there is no religion; there are only religious people. The people who are around me are not joined as an organized body. They are around me as individual seekers. They feel a love for me. They are my friends, not my followers. So I will continue to teach; but the teaching will not be between somebody who is a prophet, saviour, God's only begotten son.
All that nonsense will not be there. I am just as human as you are. Perhaps just a little bit difference; that I have known myself. And that is your potential. You can know yourself too.
So I will be teaching, but only to my friends, not to my followers. Followers are blind. And it is ugly to make somebody a follower. It is insulting to the person. I respect people. And a person who is in search of truth needs all the respect in the world.
So I will be teaching, I will be blessing. My whole presence is a blessing to those who love me. Just being close to me is a blessing. So the abandonment of Rajneeshism as an organized religion brings a great freedom to my people. And it also brings a great joy to me, because I don't now any more belong to the same kind of people - Mohammed, Moses, Jesus. They were all pretenders. Jesus was saying that he can save the whole world; and he could not save himself.
Mohammed was saying that he was the last paigambara of God. Now there will be no other paigambaras; I have brought you the latest and the last message. And looking at the KORAN it looks stupid in comparison to UPANISHADS, which are thousands of years old. And this is the last message, that a man can have four wives, that animals are made to be eaten. And declaring oneself a paigambara or a prophet is simply eccentric; the man is not sane. He is a crackpot. I don't want to belong to that category. I just want to be a simple human being like everybody else.
Yes, I have found something which you can also find, because it is within you.
Just you have not looked for it. That difference is not much of a difference. Any moment you can decide, and look into.
Every man is by birth capable of becoming enlightened. If he does not become, he is responsible. So my teaching will continue. Now it will have more freedom; and now I can relate more closely, because I am not standing on a hilltop, and you are in a dark valley. I am no more special. And to me, to be just ordinary is the greatest extraordinary thing in life.
YOU HAVE LAUNCHED BITTER CRITICISM ON AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. IS IT IN RETALIATION TO THEIR BEHAVIOUR WITH YOU, OR AN ATTEMPT TO APPEAL OTHER SOCIALIST AND COMMUNIST COUNTRIES?
Both. It has to be both.
HOW IS IT THAT AT POONA ASHRAM (*) AND RAJNEESHPURAM IN AMERICA THE LOCAL PEOPLE COULD NOT TOLERATE YOUR SETTING UP OF COMMUNES? DO YOU WANT TO SET UP ONE IN MADHYA PRADESH, OR ELSEWHERE IN FUTURE? WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE PLANS?
No. I don't want to set up any commune anywhere.
YOU MIGHT HAVE GONE THROUGH, OR YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT THE REPORTING CARRIED BY PUNJAB KESARI ABOUT YOU AND YOUR SECT. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT FREEDOM OF PRESS IN COMPARISON IN AMERICA.
America has more freedom of press in India has.
IT IS SAID THAT AT PRESENT YOU ARE FACING FINANCIAL STRINGENCIES. IS IT FOR THIS REASON THAT THAT FLEET OF ROLLS ROYCE CARS IS BEING DISPOSED OF AT RAJNEESHPURAM. DO YOU PLAN ABANDONING OF POONA ASHRAM ALSO?
No. I have never had any money. For thirty years I have been without money, so I cannot have any financial trouble. My friends take care of me, and there are millions around the world. And what is happening in Rajneeshpuram, they are selling everything because everything belongs to them. Those Rolls Royces do not belong to me. And Poona Ashram has not be closed; there is no reason. And as far as I am concerned, I am the poorest and the richest man in the world; poorest because I don't have anything, richest because I have as many lovers and friends as nobody can claim. So if I want Rolls Royces, one hundred Rolls Royces will be standing here tomorrow.
There is no problem about it.
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOUR TEACHINGS ABOUT SEX? HOW DOES IT RELATE TO THE CULTURAL HERITAGE IN INDIA?
My teachings about sex are really based on the cultural heritage of India. No other country has been able to find a philosophy like Tantra, and Tantra is one of the greatest contribution of this country to the world. And my teachings are part of Tantra. It is up to date Tantra.
WHY IS SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS MEDITATION CONSIDERED THREATENING?
It is considered threatening because if there are twenty people sad, frustrated, and you are smiling and joyful, you will be considered threatening. Those twenty people will kill you. They will see you, you have gone mad. Why are you smiling?
Meditation creates a problem because it gives you such serenity, such silence, such joy; and all around is frustration, all around is misery. The miserable person becomes absolutely against you, because the question is either you are right or he is right, and he means the majority; and you are alone.
And if things are decided by a majority, then of course he is right. Gautam Buddha is not right.
HAVE YOU ANY PLANS TO VISIT RUSSIA, CHINA, OR ANY OTHER FOREIGN COUNTRIES IN THE NEAR FUTURE?
IS IT CORRECT THAT YOU AND YOUR DISCIPLES SUCCEEDED IN GIVING A DODGE TO CUSTOM PEOPLE AT DELHI AIRPORT?
Absolutely wrong. Because my disciples passed through all the regular, normal way. Only I was taken out, because I had nothing to declare.
HAD YOU COME TO KULU VALLEY EARLIER ALSO FOR MEDITATION? IF SO, DO YOU REMEMBER SOME LOCAL PERSON WHO MAY HAVE ACCOMPANIED YOU AT THAT TIME? HAVE YOU ANY PLANS TO MAKE TO MEET THE STATE CHIEF MINISTER?
I have been here some twenty five years before, but I don't remember any local person. And as far as the chief minister, Bir(*) Addra(*) is concerned, I have heard about him. He is an intelligent man, and courageous too. If he is really intelligent and courageous, he should come to meet me. I never go to meet anybody. And I am a guest, he is a host. He should remember that. (b631) WHY MA ANAND SHEELA BETRAYED COMMUNE? IS IT A FACT THAT MR VINOD KANNA IS ALSO THINKING OF RETURNING TO FILM INDUSTRY? CAN HE DO IT WHILE REMAINING PRESIDENT OF RAJNEESH FRIENDS INTERNATIONAL, INDIAN SECTION?
Certainly, because there is no bondage on anybody. If he feels like going back to films he will be now a better actor than he ever was. And I would not deprive the film industry of a genius. He can go with all my blessings.
And as far as Sheela is concerned, nobody can betray me, because I have no expectations from anybody. You come on your own, and whenever you want to go on your own. What is the question of betrayal? Because I don't require any faith, I don't require any loyalty.
Betrayal is possible only when loyalty is required, and you go against it. But I don't ask for any loyalty, no faith in me. It is your joy to come and join in my caravan. It is your joy to depart. There is no betrayal.
(INAUDIBLE) WE ARE GRATEFUL TO YOUR HOLINESS FOR THE ENLIGHTENMENT WE HAVE GOT FROM YOU IN RESPONSE TO OUR QUESTIONS.
Good. Come again whenever you need.