Truth as it is - Naked

The first question

Question 1:

Casper Vogel,

IT IS ONE THING TO UNDERSTAND words, it is a totally different experience to understand the statements made by mystics. The words are simple. Anybody can understand them, but the implications can be understood only by those who have experienced the same kind of consciousness out of which those words have flowed.

This Zen saying is one of the most significant sayings: BETTER TO SEE THE FACE...

By 'the face' is meant your original face - not the face that is reflected in the mirror, not the face this is reflected in other people's eyes, but the face that you had even before your parents were born, the face that you will have when your body has gone back to the dust, when you are dead. 'The original face' is a Zen way of speaking about your spiritual reality, about your innermost truth, about your individuality. The face that you are acquainted with is your personality. The word 'personality' comes from a Greek root PERSONA. PERSONA means a mask.

Personality is a mask, and you don't have one personality either, you have many, for different purposes. You are continuously changing your personalities every moment. As the situation changes, your personality changes. Your mask is not one, there are many masks. When you are in need and you approach a friend, you have a different face. when your friend is in need and he approaches you, you have a totally different face. These two faces are not the same at all, and for each situation you have a mask appropriate for it. and amidst this crowd of masks your original face is lost. You are more concerned with what people say about you. Why? - because their eyes, their opinions, their ideas give you your face. Your face is borrowed. If somebody says you are beautiful, you are happy. If somebody says you are ugly, disgusting, you are unhappy.

Your face is dependent on what others say about you. If they call you a saint you start flying above the clouds. And if they call you a sinner, you are crushed below the earth. You don't know who you are, hence so much concern with other's opinions, so much concern with mirrors.

Your whole idea about yourself is borrowed - borrowed from those people who have no idea who they are themselves. It is a very strange world, very insane.

The saying can be understoood very easily. That's what Casper vogel has done, he thinks he understands.

BETTER TO SEE THE FACE THAN TO HEAR THE WORDS.

Thinking that he has understood it, he asks:

WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO SEE THE FACE AND TO HEAR THE WORDS?

Once you have seen the original face there is no need to hear the words. The original face is encountered only in absolute silence. words have no business there. Words are left far behind, far away. You have to go beyond the mind, only then can you see the face.

Mind consists of words. The moment you go beyond the mind you have gone beyond words. There is nothing to hear, but only to see. That's why we have called the great mystics the seers. And in the East, particularly in India, philosophy is called DARSHAN. DARSHAN means the art of seeing.

It is not right to translate philosophy as DARSHAN or DARSHAN as philosophy. It is a mis- translation. But people like Casper Vogel go on doing these things. Scholars like Dr. Radhakrishnan and others have translated the Indian vision into other languages, and they have called it'Indian philosophy'.

In India philosophy has not really existed at all - philosophy in the Greek sense of the word, philosophy in the sense Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant, Hegel, Russell or Wittgenstein will understand. Philosophy in the East is not philosophy, it is PHILOUSIA. Philosophy means love for knowledge, love for wisdom; PHILOUSIA means desire for essence or isness.

Truth is not something to be thought about, it is something to be experienced, seen. The Zen people call it your original face. It has nothing to do with the face, with your body, with your mind; it has nothing to do even with your heart.

The ordinary Indian religious person thinks there are three ways to reach God: GYAN YOGA - the path of knowledge; KARMA YOGA - the path of action; and BHAKTI YOGA - the path of devotion.

Vivekananda also agrees with the ordinary mind, and he says these are the three paths to God.

None of these is really a path to God. Action belongs to the body and the body has to be left behind.

Knowledge belongs to the mind and the mind has to be left behind. Devotion belongs to the heart and the heart has to be left behind. Only when you have transcended these three do you know what Zen is.

Zen comes from the Sanskrit word DHYANA; it has a beautiful history. Gautam the Buddha never used the Sanskrit language for two reasons. One, it was the language of the scholars, the pundits, and they are the most stupid people in the world. Buddha never wanted to use the language of the scholars and the pundits and the priests. He used the language of the people.

Of course Sanskrit is very sophisticated. The exact meaning of'sanskrit' is: that which is very sophisticated, cultured, refined. But it became so refined that it lost all contact with reality; it became so refined that it became abstract, it lost aliveness; it became conceptual, it became philosophy in itself.

Buddha dropped Sanskrit; he never used it. He used Pali, the language of the people. It is more raw but closer to the earth; more pragmatic, more primitive, but closer to reality. Primitive languages are always closer to reality. They are not yet in the hands of the scholars, the professors, the philosophers. In Pali, DHYANA IS pronounced JHANA. From JHANA has come the Japanese word ZEN.

Zen is the only path. Vivekananda is utterly wrong in saying that there are three paths; there is only one path. There is only one reality and one path to it, and that is DHYANA - meditation. Meditation is not knowledge, it is not action, it is not feeling: it is transcendence of all these three. And when you have transcended the three you enter the fourth - TURIYA.

We have been meditating over the Mandukya Upanishad all these days. The Mandukya Upanishad is concerned with the fourth, TURIYA. Zen is the fourth, meditation is the fourth. And the original face is discovered only when all the turmoil of activity, thinking, feeling, has ceased, when you have fallen into a tremendously silent space. There are no words to hear, there is only to see - or even better will be, only to be. One simply is. And in that isness is revealed all that is hidden. There is no need to say anything. When you have tasted yourself, what is the point of saying anything.

Two mystics, Farid and Kabir, met by coincidence. Farid was traveling and his disciples said to him, "We are very close to the commune of Kabir, and it will be a great experience for us if we can see you both being together, talking to each other, sharing your experiences with each other." Farid agreed.

The same happened to Kabir's disciples. They heard Farid was passing by; they prayed to Kabir, "It will be good if we invite Farid and his followers to be with us just for a few days. It will be of tremendous significance for us just to see you two together, talking, sharing."

Kabir said, "That's beautiful! Invite him." Farid was invited. Kabir himself came outside the village to receive him. They hugged each other, they laughed loudly. Holding hands they walked together to Kabir's community. Two days they stayed together, and the disciples of Kabir and Farid were utterly disappointed because not a single word was uttered by Farid or Kabir. They sat together, smiled at each other. Sometimes they held each other's hands. Now how long could the disciples sit and wait and wait? Two days appeared like two years! And they became very tired and bored. And what happened to these people? They all were puzzled because Farid had been talking to the disciples for years. Kabir had been talking to his disciples for years - and suddenly both have become dumb?!

After two days they parted. They again hugged each other, laughed.... The moment Farid was left with his disciples and Kabir was left with his disciples - the disciples were really boiling within - they jumped on their masters and they said, "What happened to you? Why did you suddenly become silent?"

Farid said, "But there was nothing to say. The moment I saw him, I also saw that he has seen. So what is there to say? He knows, I know, and we know the same reality."

And Kabir said to his disciples, "Do you want me to appear stupid? I could see that he knows, so there was no need to say anything. Words are needed to show you the path, but he has arrived, so we shared our arrival by hugging, smiling, laughing. We have both arrived at the same space. We enjoyed! We really loved to be together. These two days were tremendously beautiful. But when two zeros come together they become one."

It is natural. When two absolutely egoless beings come together, there is no separation, there is no wall, there is no barrier between them. A merger, a melting into each other starts happening. Kabir and Farid must have enjoyed those two days of tremendous understanding. But there is nothing to say!

Casper Vogel, the moment you have seen the face there is no need for any words. If you are too attached to the words, then avoid the face; then don't search for reality. Then it is better to go on THINKING about reality; then you are capable of hearing only as much as you can.

Just the other day I was reading a statement of Rudolf Steiner: "If a German comes to a crossroads and sees that one road has a signboard saying: 'To Heaven,' and the other road has another sign saying: 'To the Lecture Hall About Heaven,' he will go to the second - to listen to the lecture ABOUT heaven."

Germans are philosophical people; they have given birth to great philosophers. Who bothers about heaven? First let us HEAR about it, discuss it, analyze it, whether it exists or not, go through all the theories, ponder over it. And heaven can always wait. Tomorrow the lecture may be there or it may not be - who knows? - but heaven is always there. You can always go to heaven whenever you want, but about the lecture.... One has to rush immediately! Once the clock says eight, the doors are closed and the German is left out. And he has to sit in the front. Look! - Haridas, just sitting by my side.... Do you think Haridas will go to heaven? Never! He will go to the lecture.

If you want to hear the words, Casper, then it is better not to bother about the original face. If you have seen the original face you are finished with all words, all philosophy, all religion.

The second question

Question 2:

Ajai Krishn Lakhanpal,

IT IS A LONG STORY. The moment I became capable of seeing I started talking about truth as it is - naked. But nobody was ready even to listen to it. I was puzzled: I had found the original face, I had seen it, I wanted to share with those who were searching for it, but they were not ready to listen to it.

For a few years I struggled hard, but then I saw that they were not wrong, I was wrong. They could not digest truth raw and naked; when you have been eating cooked food for many many lives you cannot digest raw food. I was wrong, they were not wrong.

Then I started cooking things! Then I started saying things which they could digest. I became less and less concerned about truth and more and more concerned about the people who were to digest it; I had to see how much they could digest. And I had to prepare the food in such a way that it was sweet, not bitter, that it tasted good, it looked good. Whether it was nutritious or not, that was secondary. Who bothers whether Deeksha's cakes are nutritious or not? whether the ice cream is going to make you healthy or ill? Who bothers about these things? It TASTES good. It may destroy you finally...

And I was amazed - when I started serving cooked food people became very much interested and excited. That was a device: that's how I have been able to hook you all! Otherwise I was sitting on the riverbank day in, day out - not a single fish! Once I started serving cooked food - cooked according to your desires, not according to your needs.... I didn't need to think at all about the truth in the beginning days, I forgot all about it. I stopped going to the river - the fish started coming to me on their own, walking long distances.

So don't be too bothered about what I have said in my earlier works. I have said many things which I don't mean! What I am saying today is closer to truth than what I said yesterday, and every day it will become closer and closer to the truth. Before I am gone I will again have told you the naked truth.

I had to take such a long route because there was no other way; I had to be very indirect. The moment I became enlightened I started telling people that there is no God - and they were shocked!

Then I cooked it. I said, "There is God, but God is not a person, only a presence." This is cooked food. I am simply saying there IS NO God. But now it tastes sweet - no person, only a presence.

But what else can you do? If people are foolish you have to be careful with them. So I have certainly said, Ajai Krishn Lakhanpal, that no saint is against any other saint - but that is absolutely wrong.

Buddha was as much against Mahavira as anybody can be, Mahavira was as much against Gosala as anybody can be. Krishna was against the Vedas, Buddha was against the Vedas, Mahavira was against the Vedas. Mahavira was against Krishna.... Do you think Jesus Christ was supporting the Old Testament? Of course, he was serving cooked food, but the Jews are very clever people: they found it out! He was saying: "It has been told to you before an eye for an eye. If somebody hits you with a brick you have to answer him with a rock, it has been told before. But I say to you that if somebody slaps you on the right cheek, give him the left too."

Now what is he saying? It is cooked food. He is saying that the old prophets, the old so-called prophets, were wrong. The Jewish God and the Christian God are totally opposite. The Jewish God says: I am a very jealous God. And Jesus says: God is love. Now love and jealousy never meet, there is no possibility. Jews immediately found out: "This man is destroying our past. Before he succeeds it is better to destroy him." They killed him; he was only thirty-three when he was killed.

Jews found him out far more quickly than anybody else has ever been.

Lao Tzu lived long, Buddha lived long, Mahavira lived long. They went on saying things, but in such a way that you could not find them out - it was impossible for you to find them out.

I wanted to say the naked truth from the very beginning, but to whom to say it? I had to drop that. For a few years I tried my hardest, but all the doors remained closed; nobody was even ready to listen.

Then I changed the whole strategy, I became a little more diplomatic. Then whatsoever I wanted to say I started saying through Mahavira, through Buddha, through Zarathustra, through Lao Tzu, through Jesus.... I continued to say things but I was using other people's names. And Christians became very much interested when I said the same things in the name of Jesus! Whatsoever I said in the name of Jesus is simply my own; it has nothing to do with Jesus at all. And if I meet Jesus there is going to be a great argument. They all must be waiting for me - let this guy come!

- because I have been telling things in the name of Buddha which he never meant... but Buddhists became very happy.

Fools are fools! The earth is so full of them.

I started saying things in the name of Mahavira which are absolutely the opposite of what he said - because if I had to live with Mahavira in the same room, either I would leave or he would leave!

We could not have tolerated each other. First, his smell... because he never used to take a bath.

He was against taking baths because when you pour so much water on your body, so many small germs in the water die; that is violence. So he never took a bath.

And he used to live naked - you know the Indian roads - he was walking because he was not using any vehicle, he could not according to his ideology. To ride on a horse is violence, to ride in a bullock- cart is violence. He had to walk, and without shoes, because shoes were made out of leather - that is violence. And twenty-five hundred years ago... even NOW Indian roads are not contemporary, at least one thousand years behind. Twenty-five centuries ago, walking in Bihar - which is still very dusty - he must have been gathering dust in the hot summer, perspiring and gathering dust, layers upon layers of dust.

He was not even ready to clean his teeth, he was against washing his mouth, rinsing his mouth.

Always that violence - if you rinse your mouth you are killing germs in the water, and there are millions of germs in the water. His breath must have been smelling really foul!

One thing is certain: I could not have tolerated him in the same room. And he would not tolerate me either. He would simply go mad seeing my air-conditioned room, my Rolls-Royce - he would simply go mad!

He was an ascetic. According to me he was a masochist - now this is raw food! - he was torturing himself, he enjoyed torturing himself. And I am not a masochist or a sadist; neither do I want to torture myself nor do I want to torture anybody else. He was both, a sadomasochist: he was torturing himself and teaching people to torture themselves.

But I have spoken on Mahavira. I had to play with words to manage my meaning in his words. It was a difficult task but I DID it, and the Jainas were very happy.

The same I have done with Krishna. I think my commentary on Krishna is the biggest in the whole of history. Lokman Tilak's commentary on Krishna, his Gita, was thought to be the biggest - it must be more than one thousand pages. But my commentary is twelve times bigger. And I DON'T agree with Krishna really! Whatsoever I have said - the words are his, the meanings are mine.

But this can be done very easily with the saints who are dead. What can they do? And when we meet later on somewhere - if that meeting ever happens - then I can simply apologize; there is no problem in it. And I hope they will understand - because they themselves had done the same thing, and I am doing the same thing. There is no problem in it.

So one thing, Ajai Krishn: whenever you want to try to understand me, don't bring in what I have said in the past; that is not going to help. The LATEST has to be taken into account. And when tomorrow I say something, that will be even better. Before I enter into my grave, my last statement will be just the naked truth.

But I had to take this long route for the simple reason that - whom to get hold of, with whom to share your experience? With whom? There are Hindus, there are Mohammedans, there are Christians, there are Buddhists, there are Sikhs, there are Parsis... not a single human being is available, all are already divided. The only way is to catch the Christians through Jesus and the Jews through Moses and the Hindus through Krishna. Once they are with me then they will be able to understand.

And now I have found my people so I don't care much. Now I can start giving you my original experience.

You ask me:

DOES THIS MEAN THAT YOU DON'T REALLY MEAN YOUR CRITICISM...?

I really mean it!

.. OF POSSIBLE SAINTS LIKE MUKTANANDA, NITYANANDA...?

You say 'possible saints'? These are impossible saints!

Muktananda is a very ordinary person; I have met him. I was passing by his ashram and his disciples invited me, just for a few minutes' stay, to take a cup of tea. So I said, "Okay."

The man was so flat, just like a flat tire, nothing in him, nothing of any worth, not even junk. And it was not only apparent to me: one of my disciples, a woman follower, Nirmala Srivastava, was with me - even she could see, even she proved to be far more intelligent than Muktananda. We stayed only fifteen minutes; it was a sheer wastage of time. And the moment our car moved away, Nirmala told me, "This man is absolutely common, very ordinary. Why did you waste your time? - even fifteen minutes is an unnecessary wastage!"

I looked at her, and immediately I knew that some idea had entered into her head - and it had entered. The idea was: "If such a fool like Muktananda can become a saint, then why can't I become a saint?" And the idea worked out well. Now Nirmala Srivastava is a great saint, is traveling around the world, having many devotees. That day it transpired, looking at Muktananda. Now she is 'Her Holiness, the World Mother - LAGAJJANANI - Mataji, Nirmalaji Deviji Srivastavaji.' Now she has many followers, doing the same thing that Muktananda is doing - raising people's kundalini.

Once she could see that this fool can raise people's kundalini, then "Why can't I raise it?" And she is certainly far more intelligent than Muktananda, far more capable, far more skillful, far more intellectual. Muktananda is not a saint.

But this has not happened only once.

You must have heard of the name Yogi Bhajan. In America he has many followers; he has turned many American fools into SARDARS. He preaches the Sikh religion; he is the head of the Sikh religion for the Western hemisphere. And do you know what he was? He was just a porter at the Delhi airport.

But what happened to Nirmala Srivastava happened to him too. His name was Sardar Haribhajan Singh. Muktananda came to Delhi airport with his followers, and this porter was simply carrying his luggage. He looked at this man; he said, "If this fool can lead, then what is wrong with me?" And of course Sardar Haribhajan Singh is a taller man, healthier, more robust, and far more intelligent. He immediately escaped to America, became Yogi Bhajan, and gathered a big following.

Just a few days ago he was in Delhi, and one of the highest authorities of the airport told Laxmi, "I was passing through the Taj Mahal Hotel in New Delhi - I had gone to see some friend - and I saw on the lawn there a very saintly man surrounded by many Americans. I asked, 'Who is this man?' and I was told that he is a great guru, Yogi Bhajan. I thought he must be a great yogi, otherwise how can you get such a gathering?" This man felt happy because he is also a SARDAR, and Yogi Bhajan has made all these people SARDARS; they were all sitting around him with turbans and KIRPANS.

He was very happy.

When he was passing by this crowd of Yogi Bhajan's people - Yogi Bhajan seems to be really a good man, a simple man - he said, "Hey boss!" This officer could not believe that he was calling him, so he thought he must be calling somebody else: "How can such a great mahatma say, 'Hey boss!' to me?" So he went on.

He again shouted, "Hey boss!" so he turned back. Yogi Bhajan took him inside his suite in the Taj Mahal, closed the doors and said, "Have you forgotten your poor porter, Sardar Haribhajan Singh?

I am Sardar Haribhajan Singh and nobody else. Have your forgotten your poor servant?"

Then he remembered. But he said, "How did this happen? How did you become such a great mahatma?"

He said, "It is due to Muktananda. When I saw Muktananda I said, 'If this fool can get a following, then what is wrong with me? Why should I go on wasting my time being a porter at Delhi airport?'

Now I am the head of the Sikh religion in the Western hemisphere. I have thousands of followers.

But," he said, "to you, I say that I am simply the same man - I know nothing. But these people are greater fools than I am."

And you can always find greater fools than you are. The world abounds in them.

Muktananda is not a saint or anything. Nityananda, Muktananda's guru, was simply a traditional, conventional person. He fulfilled the expectations of the Hindus, hence he was a saint. Anybody can manage it; all that you need is a lack of intelligence. You can do it. You have to be stupid - only a stupid person can be traditional, conventional, only a stupid person can fulfill other people's expectations. A real saint cannot be traditional.

Listen to these words of Meher Baba, a real saint, an authentic sage. He says: "Not only is the perfect Master not necessarily bound to any particular technique in giving spiritual help to others, but also he is not bound to the conventional standard of good. He is beyond the distinction of good and evil. But although what he does may appear lawless in the eyes of the world, it is always meant for the ultimate good of others. He has no personal motive."

These people all have personal motives. If you want to be worshipped as a saint, then you have to fulfill the expectations of the people you are living with. If you are living with Hindus, fulfill their expectations of what a saint is supposed to be; if you are living with Mohammedans, fulfill their expectations - and you will be a saint. It needs no intelligence, no art, no diligence, nothing at all - just fulfill their expectations. If they think that you should eat only once a day, eat once a day. And it can be managed, it is not much of a problem; it is just a question of creating a habit. If they want you to fast for three days and then eat only once after three days, you can do that. Nityananda must have been doing such things - his big belly is enough proof.

Have you seen a picture of Nityananda? If you have not seen one you have missed something really worth seeing. There are people who have bellies, but here the case is just the opposite: the belly has the person! The belly is all, just a little head on top of it, two hands by the side, two legs - but the belly is the real thing. It is a belly with a head, hands and legs. This is bound to happen. If you have to eat only once after three days then you have to take the whole quota for three days, you have to accumulate it. Nityananda looks permanently pregnant. Just look at his picture and you will see it. He is not a saint, just a conventional Hindu, a traditional Hindu.

A saint is always revolutionary, a saint is basically a rebellion.

And Maharishi Mahesh Yogi... I know him well, because we come from the same part of India. The distance between my village and his village is only six miles. I used to go to his village every morning just for a morning walk. He is absolutely phony. There is nothing in him. What he is teaching is just an ancient, simple method of chanting a mantra. You can use any word repetitively; it creates a kind of auto-hypnosis. It gives you a good sleep, but a good sleep is not enlightening; a good sleep is good for your physical health so nothing is wrong in it, but there is nothing valuable either.

And Swami Prabhupada... if Muktananda is a very ordinary person, Prabhupada is extra-ordinary.

He is an extra-ordinary idiot! Muktananda can be helped, Prabhupada cannot be helped at all.

But you can judge by the people they attract. You can just see the people who are part of the Hare Krishna movement. You will find the most idiotic people of the world gathered together. Here you will find just the opposite - the most intelligent people of the world are coming here. They are BOUND to come, they HAVE to come - it is inevitable. You will find your polar opposites in the Hare Krishna people. I have never come across such idiots! But they also need a saint. Of course, their need should be fulfilled - Prabhupada did that.

And you ask me:

ARE YOU NON-SERIOUS WHEN YOU CRITICIZE THEM, OR ARE YOU EARNEST IN YOUR CRITICISM?

I am absolutely earnest, but serious I cannot be - that is impossible. I am always non-serious. Even when I am utterly honest, sincere, I am non-serious. Serious I cannot be; that is not my nature.

And why should I be serious just because there are a few fools in the world? Why should I be serious? I enjoy! In fact, a few fools are always needed in the world. They serve a certain purpose:

they keep the world laughing. They are so ridiculous - without them we would be missing something.

They are so absurd - they are needed. They keep your sense of humor alive; that is their purpose.

God - and you know what I mean by God: just a presence, no person - God always creates whatsoever is absolutely needed, he never creates anything unnecessary. So these people ARE needed.

And, Ajai Krishn, you say that you are disturbed because I talk against Mother Teresa every other day. Do you want me to talk about her EVERY day? I can do that too - for your peace of mind.

Don't get upset! You seem to be a devotee of Mother Teresa, saying that I only mention her every other day. She is not a saint, she's just an agent of the Catholic Church; she is just trying to convert people to Roman Catholicism.

A few days ago I mentioned a Protestant couple who wanted to adopt a child; the couple is childless.

The organization was ready to give them a child but when the husband filled out the form they came to know that he is not a Roman Catholic; he is a Protestant Christian. Both are Christians - the Catholics and the Protestants - there is not much difference between them - but he was refused.

And when I said this, I have seen angry letters against me in the newspapers saying that there must be some reason why Mother Teresa and her organization refused the couple; that couple must have been a hippie couple - just because of her compassion she refused them.

That is utter nonsense! - because they were willing to give a child, they had accepted to give, they were absolutely ready to give. Only when the form was filled out and he mentioned that he was not a Catholic but a Protestant Christian was he refused. And he is not a hippie - the couple is a well-established, well-to-do, well-educated couple. The husband is a professor in a big university in Europe.

So when people write these letters against me, they should check what they are saying.

The husband's letter was published in THE TIMES OF INDIA. He was shocked because he had believed that Mother Teresa believes in universal brotherhood. What to say about UNIVERSAL brotherhood? - even Protestants and Catholics are not brothers.

Then a follower of Mother Teresa replied: "Mother Teresa and her organization refused to give the child, not because of your religion but because the orphan child has been raised according to the Roman Catholic discipline. It is out of compassion for the child because if he goes to a Protestant family there will be a disturbance. His lifestyle with Mother Teresa will have to be radically changed, and that will be a shattering experience for the child. That's why they have been refused."

Now so many questions arise. First, the child basically is Hindu. Mother Teresa has disturbed the child in the first place by giving him a Catholic training and discipline. And now, giving the child to a Protestant family... which is not very different from a Catholic family. Both believe in Christ, both believe in the Bible - what differences are there? Just very nonessential differences: that a Protestant priest is allowed to get married and a Catholic priest is not allowed to get married. How is this going to disturb the child? What nonsense!

There are certainly great differences between Hinduism and Christianity, and the child would have had to go through a drastic change. That is perfectly okay - compassionate towards the child. And if Mother Teresa thinks that changing religion is disturbing a person, then why are millions of Hindus, poor Hindus, being converted to Christianity? They should be stopped. And they are not children - they are grown-up people; their conditioning is bigger. In fact, they will have to go through a deeper crisis. If compassion is there, then converting anybody from one religion to another is inhuman. But that is perfectly okay.

The whole Catholic Church is after people, how to make more Catholics. She is simply an agent of the Catholic Church, of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic organization. She's not a saint at all - far more clever than Muktananda, not as idiotic as Prabhupada, more cunning, more clever; so clever and so cunning that she goes on doing this conversion business behind a facade of serving the poor. Even Hindus are befooled, Mohammedans are befooled, and nobody can see the trick and the politics - the politics of numbers.

I am going to say whatsoever I feel is the truth, and every day I will go on sharpening the truth. I have spoken so much for all kinds of people - three hundred books are there. Now I have to create three hundred more books to get rid of all that I have said! But I am capable of doing it - I have planned it already. For seven years I have been speaking non-stop, just seven years more speaking non-stop and I can put you in a real jam!

The last question

Question 3:

Satyarthi,

ACCORDING TO THE ANCIENT AKASHIC records, Mary had just given birth to her son. She was lying back in the hay exhausted, when the door opened and in walked half a dozen shepherds, and half a dozen kings, and half a dozen wise men from the East.

She raised her eyes to her husband and said, "Jesus, what a way to spend Christmas!"