Yoga Bavara, the question is immensely important, because the whole future of humanity depends on a few factors: one is homosexuality. First, I would like to explain to you why I call it perversion.
And once you understand it, things will be simpler.
There is no biological program in you for homosexuality. The biological program in your sperm is for heterosexuality. I am simply stating a fact, that homosexuality has arisen under ugly pressures in the monasteries of all religions, where it is forced to happen in the name of the purity of celibacy - and in the schools, colleges and in universities where boys and girls are kept separate and teachers and professors function as gods so that no heterosexual relationship happens.
Men and women become sexually mature at the age of thirteen or fourteen. The natural thing would be to allow them the expression of their new area of exploration. Of course, all precautions can be taken so that small boys and girls don't get into any trouble - particularly the girls, that they should not become pregnant at such an early age.
In the past there was no way, but now we are in a better position. According to me, the pill is the greatest revolution that has happened in history. And now, even better pills are available. The first pill was not a hundred percent foolproof. You have to take it continuously and if you miss one day and by chance you meet your lover... The human tendency is to think that one does not get pregnant every time, why should it happen at this time? Take the chance. But if hundreds and thousands and millions of people are taking chances, then a few pregnancies are bound to happen.
The society managed forcibly to keep the two sexes apart. And I wondered myself, when I came to know that between the ages of sixteen and eighteen sexual energy, as it happens, is at its peak. It will never be the same power again.
We have arranged marriages after the boys and girls return from the universities - age twenty- four, twenty-five, twenty-six. Their peak point of energy has already passed six or eight years back. They are on the decline. Because of this decline... And I suspect that religions wanted this decline to happen, because with this declining force you cannot have orgasmic experience.
Orgasmic experience is a flood. You are so flooded that you disappear. And I respect the orgasmic experience because my understanding is that all meditations have arisen out of it. All spirituality has arisen out of it, because it has given a taste of the beyond.
By preventing young people until they are twenty-five or twenty-six, first, they will never experience orgasm. Second, they will never think that there is any possibility of a higher consciousness, of a more beautiful space within themselves; that they are not what they see in the mirror, they are much more. In an orgasmic experience they become almost one with the whole. It is the first glimpse - a window opens and they start searching for ways to widen the window, to fly in this open sky.
Nobody has worked it out, how man found meditation, how he started thinking of a spiritual experience of ecstasy. To me, it is very simple. Once the boys and girls have orgasmic experience, they have already tasted the spiritual, the divine, the sacred. Now, in their whole life nothing is going to be of that height.
And secondly, in an orgasmic experience one comes to know that thought stops, time stops. You come to a standstill - no movement. Those who were wise enough, they tried it in another way: how to get rid of thought, time and movement and become absolutely still. And they were surprised that it works both ways; you attain to the same orgasmic experience. But when the orgasmic experience is sexual you are dependent on the other person, and when the orgasmic experience comes out of meditation you attain a tremendous dignity as an individual - independence.
Religions did not want this orgasmic experience to happen to people. And to prevent it, they created the idea of celibacy. It is ugly and very cunning - but priests are cunning. Their whole concern was their own business. If people start experiencing individually, the spiritual and the sacred, then the brahmin priest is no longer needed; neither is the rabbi needed or the catholic priest needed. They have come in direct contact with the universe in such an intimate way that there is no need for any mediator.
To destroy this possibility there were two ways. In the past, they used early marriage: seven years, eight years old. Now, a seven-year old boy is not sexually mature, and neither is the girl. But because they are married, slowly slowly they are being taught by their relatives and friends and they start playing. Sex becomes just a play to them, and at the most just a method to produce children.
They don't have any time to experience what could have turned them in a spiritual direction. This has been followed for centuries. They are too burdened too early. And the birth of children does not depend on orgasmic experience.
So sex has to be understood in two ways: on the one hand it reproduces the species, which is a biological phenomenon; on the other hand, it creates an energy experience which no religion, no politician would like people to have, because that will create the greatest revolution in the world.
People will have a direct contact with existence - no holy scripture, no priest, no mediators. And these are the people who have been the parasites of humanity. But the times changed, education came into the world; students had to leave their home and live in hostels, boys with boys, girls with girls. That also contributed to the perversion.
I am not condemning it, I am simply telling you how it happened. And when I say perversion, I don't mean by it any condemnation. I simply mean going away from the natural course of things. If a boy from fourteen to twenty-five - that is a long period - becomes homosexual, then that becomes a deep-rooted habit in him, so even when he is married his interest is not in women. Religions don't want men to be interested in women, nor do they want women to be interested in men. And they have made a very detailed strategy, slowly slowly, over thousands of years.
In the present, monasteries create homosexuals, universities create homosexuals, armies create homosexuals. Wherever one sex gathers, sooner or later they start finding ways to release each other's energies.
So the first thing to remember: I will continue to call it perversion because it is perversion. It is against nature. Nature never produces anything which is useless. Homosexuality is useless; it does not generate anything in you. Neither can it produce children, nor can it give you an orgasmic experience. Have you ever heard of homosexuals having orgasmic experience? All they have is a sexual release. The energy accumulates and becomes a tension - it needs some release.
Homosexuals know only ejaculation, they don't know what they are missing - the orgasm.
So sexual energy runs parallel in two ways. On one hand it produces children, on the other hand it can produce in you a new being. Homosexuality destroys both. And do you want me to call it a natural thing? It is destructive, it is perversion. I can understand that it may be hurting you. But if you have cancer and the doctor says to you, "It is cancer," it hurts, but it has to be said; otherwise there is no way to operate upon you, to remove the cancer. And homosexuality has become far more dangerous than cancer. Nobody was intentionally moving in that direction, but that's how things happen - in the unknown, in the darkness.
Homosexuals, because they were perverted, created the disease AIDS. Heterosexuality creates life - life for your children and a divine life for you. Homosexuality is absolutely barren; it does not create anything. Slowly slowly, as it spread... perhaps it has been happening and we were not aware of it.
The awareness came just within the last five years, when doctors found that the homosexuals with AIDS lose their resistance against any infection, and their life span is not more than six months to two years.
I was the first in the whole world to make people aware of it. Governments were hiding it, doctors were not wanting to talk about it, scientists were not revealing it to the people. They had their reasons; it looks ugly if the nation has to declare that it has thousands of homosexuals. It is not a glory, it simply means that so many people have become perverted. And because of AIDS, the danger became more.
To accept that one million people are suffering from AIDS in one country... the problem is, what are the politicians going to do about it? Nothing can be done about it. There is no possibility, according to the scientists, to cure it. It is just like death, a slow death. You cannot cure death, slow or fast.
And it looks ugly for nations to recognize it. Many nations have not even bothered to have a census about how many people are homosexual because they are potential AIDS patients. Doctors are afraid to tell anybody they have AIDS because then they will have to be admitted into a hospital.
The disease is such as man has never known. Anything coming out of the body... perspiration can infect you. If you shake hands with a man who has AIDS and his hand is perspiring, you can get it.
Kissing should now be absolutely prohibited, because through your saliva... that is the best way for the virus to be passed on, from one mouth to another mouth.
It is very strange that only one primitive tribe of Eskimos have never kissed. And when for the first time Christian missionaries arrived to convert them to Christianity, the Eskimos could not contain themselves laughing when they saw them kissing each other. Such a dirty habit! Saliva carries all kinds of viruses, all kinds of diseases. Particularly, kissing is not anything like as good as the poets have been praising it to be. It is certainly a dirty habit.
Eskimos also express their love. But love should be expressed in a cleaner way: they rub their noses with each other. Noses are very clean and cool - unless they are running. Those periods are avoided; eskimos never kiss noses if their noses are running!
Sexual contact is bound to give AIDS to the partner who did not have it. A mother's milk can give AIDS to her children. You will be surprised to know that there are now children who were born with AIDS - because the father must have been suffering from AIDS and the sperm carried the virus into the mother's womb - small children... When I condemned it in a world press conference, journalists laughed at me, politicians laughed at me. And they said that I was unnecessarily making a small thing too big, because I said that two-thirds of humanity is going to die through AIDS. I proposed what precautions should be taken, and now many civilized countries have adopted the same procedures - without, of course, mentioning my name.
My name seems to be dynamite. Even my own people are afraid to utter it, what to say about others?
Now the same journalists are reporting in great praise about their governments, that they are taking precautions. This could have been done three years ago and would have saved millions of people from catching the disease. Now, as far as I can see, it is uncontrollable.
Doctors don't want to admit it, so they simply give a certificate saying that the person does not have AIDS, because to admit an AIDS patient is dangerous: for the nurses, for the doctor. Coming in contact with such a man, the best way is simply to say, "We examined you and you are negative.
You don't have AIDS. You don't need to worry." They have shifted their responsibility, but they have created a danger for the society. Now this man will move...
Here, there are a few sannyasins... because I have made it an absolute rule that no AIDS-positive person should be allowed to enter the gate. If he wants to go anywhere, he should go to the Vatican.
The Vatican is the most responsible for creating AIDS. And the pope's position has to be changed - not as a representative of God but as the superintendent of an AIDS hospital. All people suffering from AIDS should move towards the Vatican.
I have prohibited their entry. People have to bring a certificate saying that they are negative. But you will not believe how irresponsible man can be. There are many doctors who are selling negative certificates, so you simply give some money... there is no need to be worried, take the certificate. It seems we will have to make our own lab to test people before we allow them into the campus. Their certificates can be bogus. You give just a few rupees, and in Bombay you can get a certificate. And this is happening all around the world. But such irresponsibility has never been seen. They only think of themselves and the money that they are getting. They are not worried what harm this man can do - to his friends, to his family, to his children, to his wife.
People are trying to get negative certificates because they don't want to be condemned by the society, and they don't want their wives and their children and their parents to feel embarrassed that they have got AIDS. Friends will no longer be friends. So to protect one's ego, people are trying to hide the fact. And because of the hiding of the fact, it is spreading like wildfire all over the world.
Do you want me to not call homosexuality perversion because it hurts you? If it hurts you, I am not responsible for your hurt. Your priests who have been teaching celibacy are responsible. But strange - governments are making laws against homosexuality, that it is now a crime. Anybody found to be homosexual can be sent to jail. But homosexuality is not the real root, the real root is the idea of celibacy.
Celibacy is the real perversion, but not a single man in the whole world has condemned celibacy, because nobody wants all the religions to be against him. But I am at ease because already the whole world is against me. What more can it do? I say it definitively: celibacy should be made one of the most heinous crimes. The religions which teach it should be banned.
And all celibates in the monasteries, the monks of different religions, should be told, "Get married, or at least find a girlfriend. You have lived with boyfriends long enough."
The people who have AIDS should be segregated. They should have their own small cities, where all are suffering from AIDS - the doctors, the nurses, the patients, the scientists. Then there is no danger. You cannot have, like double pneumonia, double AIDS - single is enough!
If humanity functions sanely, then AIDS patients should be taken care of in remote places. They can work, they can earn, but their cities should be closed cities. They cannot move around in the world, spreading a fatal disease. And it is out of compassion that I am saying this. If the people who are suffering from AIDS understand the meaning of compassion, they themselves should move out of the crowd, live with the same kind of people who are suffering; make small villages, islands, if they want to save humanity. Otherwise, even without nuclear weapons humanity will be destroyed. And this destruction will be very ugly.
If you feel hurt, book a ticket to Rome. Hit as hard as you can at the pope: "You are not the representative of God, you are the representative of the homosexuals; particularly the people who have reached the point where homosexuality has created AIDS." The name of the Vatican should be changed: "AIDS Camp" seems to be perfectly good. And I don't want the pope to be demoted. He should remain the superintendent of the AIDS Camp.
But you cannot stop me just because you feel hurt. I am not only concerned with you, I am also concerned with the whole of humanity. To avoid hurting a single person and create a dangerous situation for many... I cannot do that.
You say, "I have tried to look, to watch, to meditate on it. But still my feelings, my love go naturally after men." It is a very strange perversion. The natural attraction is always for the opposite polarity.
Man and woman are opposite polarities, like negative and positive electrons. If you are attracted only towards men, something is wrong in you. You should go through some groups, you should learn how to love a woman. In fact, it is so ugly even to think that a man is attracted towards a man and not towards a woman.
Women are doing the same because they want to be equal. The women involved in the liberation movement have become lesbians; their idea is to boycott men completely. Lesbianism is old, but not very widespread. There is a possibility that there may not be any harm in it, because two negatives cannot create anything - neither a child nor a painting. For creating anything two positives are needed. So perhaps lesbianism may not create a disease like AIDS, but one never knows. Up to now we were not aware that homosexuality was going to create AIDS. Perhaps it takes a certain time. And for the negative it will take a longer time. It is possible they may even create a far more dangerous disease.
But this is sheer insanity. The people who are homosexuals should move and create homosexual communes, the women who are lesbians should move and create lesbian communes. But leave the rest of humanity. Why torture them? Why destroy them? You don't have the right. You are completely free to do what you want to do, but don't interfere in anybody's life. I have every condemnation when someone interferes in others' lives.
And you are asking me, "Since being with a man I like and trust, I have felt silence and happiness."
That's good - just go to a homosexual commune, feel happy and feel silence.
"But it is difficult to accept myself totally joyfully." Why should you not accept? If you sow the seeds you should accept the flowers too. If you accept homosexuality joyfully, and you feel happy with men and you trust men and like them, then there is no need to feel any guilt. You have chosen to die within two years. It is your choice. Make as much happiness as you can within these two years. But you are not feeling totally joyful - feel totally condemned. I am preaching totality; it does not matter what is total. Feel totally condemned, feel totally corrupted, feel totally perverted and rejoice with all the perverts.
And you ask me, "How can I live these moments without feeling perverted?" There is no need. You are perverted. Why should you live these moments without feeling perverted? Live these moments knowing fully that you are perverted. Just as somebody is a man, somebody is a woman, somebody is a bird, somebody is a tree, you are a pervert.
"What is the difference," you are asking, "between being totally accepted by you and not being condemned?" I do everything totally. I accept you totally in your natural flowering, and I condemn you totally in your perversion. And for me there is no problem, I am always total. My yes is total, my no is total. But if you have chosen the no, then I will condemn you totally. You cannot question my totality.
But the simple thing is - and homosexuals around the world are not doing it... In Texas they created a law against homosexuality, that homosexuals can be jailed for years. One million homosexuals protested outside the parliament. I don't think that homosexuality should be punished by jail.
Homosexuals should be given different localities. They can live in their own world, in their own way, and be happy, but they should not be allowed to move in the wider society, spreading all kinds of dangerous viruses.
But nobody seems to do anything about it. There are deserts, there are islands uninhabited. Just give them to homosexuals. Divide the world into heterosexual and homosexual - and there should be no communication between them.
Or you change yourself. I know changing is difficult. Once you have become accustomed to a certain sexual behavior it becomes very difficult to change the behavior. Ten or twelve years are enough to make it your second nature, unless you are courageous enough, and can discipline yourself and drop that perversion and be natural. It is possible, but you will need guts for it.
Bavara, I am not only answering you, I am answering all the homosexuals of the world. It is their duty to declare that they are homosexuals. It is their duty to say that they want their own communes.
It is the duty of lesbian women to say that they want their own communes. And then it is perfectly okay - you leave the world at peace. Otherwise, my prediction that two-thirds of humanity will die from AIDS is coming closer.
In poor countries, we don't even have any idea how many people are homosexuals, how many people are suffering from AIDS. The government is not interested in your life. So almost all the poor countries have no data; only the very rich countries have now become aware of the fact. And they are collecting data but the statistics should be multiplied by at least five, because it is very difficult to find someone who will admit that they are gay.
Now the very word has become condemned, homosexuals are going underground. They had their restaurants, their clubs - they have changed their names; the whole process is going on. And the people who create the law, most of them are homosexuals. It is a very difficult situation. Teachers, professors, principals are mostly homosexual, because they have access to beautiful boys. And the people of power, whether they are priests or politicians, have power and they can manage very easily. But they don't know that they are risking the whole life of this planet.
If there is a choice, I would rather people are given poison than have an ugly disease like AIDS. If we decide to destroy the planet then destroy it. But destroy it as peacefully, as beautifully as possible, not with ugly diseases and everybody feeling guilty. And I know you are only a victim. You should not feel guilty, you should feel revengeful.
Guilt is inverted revenge.
Make it change into authentic revenge.
Who are the people who have created the situation? These people should be punished. If the government does not punish them, then you make committees and punish them. If there are one million homosexuals just in a small state, Texas, how many millions of homosexuals are there around the world? These millions of people should make their own committees and punish the priests and the people who have been teaching celibacy. They have perverted you. You need not feel guilty, you need to feel totally revengeful - because it is not only your question, the whole life on this planet is reaching, from many directions, to an end.
We can prevent politicians from using nuclear weapons, but what to do with AIDS? And people, even though they are intelligent, behave very unintelligently. One of my sannyasins and therapists, Veeresh, allows people suffering from AIDS into his groups. Just now I have been told that he tells people, "Shree Rajneesh teaches compassion, so you all be compassionate to this fellow. Hug him, kiss him, love him."
Now, this is a great interpretation of compassion! He should have told the man who is suffering from AIDS, "Shree Rajneesh teaches compassion. Now, it is your compassion not to touch people. Tell them that you are suffering from AIDS and you don't want to spread it." Rather than telling him that, he is telling other group participants to hug him, and they are hugging him. That fellow may spread AIDS to the whole group. And because he is respected there, naturally he will feel very good.
Here, we will be creating an institute to check your AIDS report, whether it is authentic or not. I want my people to be saved not only from nuclear weapons, but also from inner causes that can destroy the whole humanity.
Hymie Goldberg is telling Moishe Finkelstein about the new town brothel.
"It is fantastic," says Hymie. "You can screw all night, and when you leave they give you breakfast and twenty dollars."
"Have you actually tried it?" asks Moishe.
"No," admits Hymie, "but Becky has."
A lawyer has been trying for months to get Mendel Kravitz to pay a bill, but all his letters and telegrams are disregarded. Finally, in desperation he sends Mendel a tear-jerking letter, with a photograph of his little daughter. The lawyer writes under the photo: "Here is the reason I must have the money you owe me."
Mendel replies by sending a photograph of a beautiful redhead in a bathing suit. The caption on this picture says: "Here is the reason I can't pay."
Mendel Kravitz is trying to make out with his secretary. He wines her and dines her and when he gets her back to his apartment, he whispers sweet promises in her ear.
"If we get it together," murmurs Mendel, "a fur coat or perhaps a trip to Europe."
The secretary takes him by the hand into the bedroom and they are soon in bed together. Later, while dressing, she asks him when she will get the fur coat he promised.
"What fur coat?" asks Mendel.
"You promised me a fur coat," insists the girl.
"When I am horny, I will promise anything," says Mendel. And putting one hand over his heart and the other on his prick, he says, "When he is soft, he is hard. When he is hard, he is soft."
Yes, Beloved Master.