Darshan 4 April 1977

[A sannyasin returning to the West says he will stay with his brother: My brother is a carpenter on the river - he works with boats.]

Very good. Just be there, mm? by the river. It is good to be with a carpenter; people who work with their hands are beautiful people. It is not just accidental that Christ was born to a carpenter. It would have been difficult for him to have been born to a moneylender or something like that - it would have been impossible. That would have been really a miracle!

It is easier to be born of a virgin, not such a great miracle, than to be born of a moneylender or to be born of a politician - that would have been a greater miracle.

So just go, meditate, sit by the river, mm? and help your brother.

[The sannyasin then says: One day I felt very foolish doing meditations - they all seemed.... Well, I just felt foolish... and foolish to be sitting here in front of you asking questions.]

Mm, it is a good experience. Sometimes it comes - because in fact it is foolish. To be seeking is foolish, because that which we are seeking we already have. To meditate is foolish because meditation is not something that you can do - it is a state of non-doing.

To ask is foolish, because the answer cannot come from the outside - the answer can only come from your own heart. In fact it cannot come as an answer, it will come as a growth. It will be a blossoming, a blooming of your being.

So in a way it is foolish, but those moments when you feel that it is foolish are very rare moments of wisdom. You cannot feel foolish always, otherwise you will become enlightened!

In the Zen tradition this incidence is repeated again and again in every age with every master:

somebody comes and says he wants to become a buddha and the master hits him very hard - because the question is foolish.

Sometimes it has happened - not always, because it depends on what type of person is being hit - if he is really ready and on the verge, sometimes it has happened that with the first hit of the master the person has become enlightened.

He was able to see in that hit that it was foolish to ask how to be a buddha, because he was a buddha!

Now, to ask how to be a buddha is to ask a wrong thing, and if you try to become a buddha you will go astray - because you are already that!

So these things are going to happen to ever sannyasin by and by, some day or other. Meditating, suddenly there is a ray of light and you see that it is foolish. Sometime sitting just in front of me asking something - suddenly the realisation that it is foolish: what are you asking? What can be asked and what can be answered?

But those are very rare moments of wisdom when you feel foolish. It is only a wise man who can feel foolish. Fools never feel that they are foolish; they think they are wise. Mm? that is the definition of a foolish man: he thinks he is wise. And a wise man is one who has come to know that everything is foolish.

Very good! Just go and sit by the side of the river and be foolish!

[A sannyas couple ask about their relationship. She says they seem to love each other at different times - they don't really meet. The man says he wants them to surrender to each other.]

The first thing: you cannot surrender to each other. You can both surrender to love but you cannot surrender to each other - and if you want to surrender to each other you are heading for difficulty.

That is one of the greatest mistakes that lovers commit - and almost all lovers commit it: they think that the surrender has to be to each other. Then in the name of surrender a subtle domination starts.

The surrender has to be to the god of love, not to each other, otherwise there will be difficulty, much difficulty.

How can you surrender yourself to her and how can she surrender herself to you? She will find a thousand and one defects in you and you will find a thousand and one defects in her. One can surrender only to something perfect. It is very difficult to surrender and more difficult when you are in love, because when you are in love you have accepted the other's equality to you.

You can surrender to a master - you can go to a buddha and a christ and you can surrender - because from the very beginning you have accepted that the other is higher. Surrender is easier - you have already made way for it.

But when you fall in love with a woman and a woman falls in love with you, you have accepted the equality of each other; in the very love, equality has been accepted. Now, it is very difficult

to surrender to an equal person. So there will be difficulty and unnecessary clash. If you want to surrender and you cannot, you will feel miserable because you will feel defeated and you will feel guilty that you cannot surrender. Because of this idea of surrender you will poison your whole love affair.

Then a very subtle game can start: in the name of surrender you can start dominating and she can start dominating. And women are very very clever in doing that - in dominating through surrender.

They will touch your feet -and their hands are on your neck.

And there is a reason in it: because a woman is a softer sex, more delicate, her ways of dominating are delicate. When a man wants to dominate he will just be aggressive, violent, he will shout. When a woman wants to dominate she will cry and weep. But don't think that she is not trying to dominate - those tears are to dominate. And of course she succeeds in a better way, because the man cannot cope with it. If the woman starts fighting he can cope with it. If the woman hits him, he can cope with it - he can hit harder; he has more musculature, a bigger body.

So the woman has to go through the non-violent way. That is the very ancient-most way of the woman - the non-violent way. She wants to dominate you but not through means that you can sabotage - you cannot even sabotage her efforts. Now, if you really want to defeat her when she is crying, you have to cry more loudly - that you cannot do, that is difficult, so you have to surrender.

And through crying the woman doesn't seem to be trying to dominate - that is the beauty of it - but it is subtle domination.

Then you can go on playing the game that you have surrendered to her; now she should surrender to you. Look, you have surrendered to her - now what is she going to do? She should surrender to you! You have surrendered more and she has not surrendered yet. Mm? then the ego starts playing games. No - don't bring in surrender. You cannot surrender to her, she cannot surrender to you.

And there is a still deeper layer to it. This is my experience - and I have observed so many people, thousands, single and couples.... One observation: if you are related to a woman sexually, she cannot respect you and neither can you respect her. Respect is difficult because, down the centuries, sex has been condemned so much that it has gone into the guts, into your very blood.

If a woman finds you sexually attracted to her, she already knows that you are ordinary. If you feel a woman sexually attracted to you, you know that she is ordinary. In fact the charm starts disappearing.

If a woman can pretend that she is not sexually interested in you, you will fall at her feet - she is a goddess! And if a man can play the game of not being sexually interested, the woman can fall at his feet - he is a god!

But when you are sexually related you suddenly know that the other is as much in need as you are - how can you surrender to a needy person? You use him, he uses you, so why surrender? What is the question of surrendering? If he gives you something, you give something to him.

[The man says: Because I feel I hold on, I hold back.... I don't want to hold back so much, that's what I mean.]

That is a different thing. First drop this idea of surrendering. You surrender to love, she surrenders to love - there you will meet. But she is not surrendering to you and you are not surrendering to her, so you cannot say to her that you have surrendered, now she should surrender - that game cannot be played.

You cannot dominate through surrender and she cannot dominate through surrender, because you are both surrendered to love. Now, there is no way to dominate love. You are surrendered to something higher than both of you - that is the meaning of 'god of love'.

The very myth, that there is a god of love, is beautiful, it is a tremendous understanding. Then two lovers can surrender to the god and they remain independent. And when you are independent there is beauty - otherwise you become just a shadow or she becomes a shadow.

If she becomes a shadow she will never be able to forgive you - because who wants to become a shadow? If you become a shadow you will never be able to forgive her. If she becomes a shadow, in that very moment you will start losing interest in her - who loves a shadow? If you become a shadow she will start losing interest in you. We want to love real human beings, not shadows.

So the first thing, very basic: don't think in terms of surrendering to each other. How can you surrender to each other? That is not the question at all - -forget about it, but both surrender to love.

Then you cannot say anything to her and she cannot say anything to you and there is no need to become anybody's shadow: you remain yourself, she remains herself. In fact, by surrendering to the god of love you become authentically yourself and she becomes authentically herself.

You are never as authentic as when you become authentic for the first time. Two authentic beings can love and can love deeply... and then there is no need to hold back.

In fact, why are you holding back? There is some fear that if you don't hold back, if you give all, she will dominate - then you have nothing else to give. So we give only in parts... we keep the carrot dangling - that's why we hold back. We keep the mystery.

You don't allow the woman to enter into your whole being and know It totally, because once she knows you totally she may become disinterested. You keep a few comers aloof so that she goes on thinking: 'What are those corners? What more have you to give?' And she goes on and on searching and seeking and persuading and seducing.... And in the same way she is keeping much, holding back.

There is some understanding in it, an animal understanding, that once the mystery is known the mystery is finished. We love the mystery, we love the unknown: when it is known, mapped, measured, finished! Then what else is there? Your adventuring mind will start thinking of other women and she will start thinking of other men. That's what has happened to thousands, millions, of husbands and wives: they have looked into each other totally - finished ! Now the other has no soul because the mystery is not there - the soul exists in mystery.

This is the logic in it. But when you are truly independent and you are not worried that she can dominate and you are not surrendered to her but to the god of love, then you can open yourself totally. Because then it is not a question of her being with you or not being with you.

Let me underline this idea: when you are surrendered to the god of love, then it is not very very important whether she remains with you or leaves you or whether you leave her or remain with her.

One thing is important, that love remains.

Your surrender is towards god, not towards her. And her surrender is towards love, not towards you.

So the only question is not to betray love. Lovers can change, love can remain. Once you have understood that, there is no fear.

I am not saying that you have to change - there is no need - but this has to be absolutely understood:

lovers can change and yet love is not betrayed. You will still be loving - somebody else, some other representation, some other form, but you will still be loving, she will still be loving. Love has made you so happy that you cannot betray it.

Once this is understood, taken for granted, then you can open totally. And in that very opening you become one. When two persons are open they are not two. Only two closed persons are two - two open persons are not two. When the walls exist two rooms are two - when the walls disappear, the two rooms are not two. How can they be two? Without the walls the room is one!

And that is where the fulfillment is. That's what every lover is seeking for, searching for, hankering after, dreaming about, desiring, but not understanding rightly - you can go on seeking and searching in a wrong direction.

So the first direction is the idea of surrendering to each other. The second wrong direction is becoming afraid that she may leave you or that you may leave her. Both are wrong, and once those wrong attitudes disappear you can really be open - there is no fear then; why be closed?

She may not be there the next moment, so why not allow her to see you totally? She may not meet you again - there is no necessity, there is no inevitability. This may be your last meeting, this moment may be the last moment - next moment she may die! Next moment she may become attracted to somebody else. Next moment you may die, next moment you may start thinking of some other woman.

So the next moment cannot be predicted. This is the last moment - why not open? Why not totally give whatsoever you can give? so there is no repentance later on that you could not give to that woman, you were holding back.

When there is no fear of the future, when you are not trying to manage the future, you don't want the future to be a certain way - you never know. When you remain in ignorance about the future, there is an opening.

And the surrender is not for each other, so there is no fear of domination. You can relax, she can relax. In that relaxation two energies meet and mingle and a single moment can become almost an eternity. A single moment can be so fulfilling that you may live for lives and Not be able to get that fulfillment.

And I am not saying that there is any necessity for you to separate. My whole understanding is:

how can you separate then? When you have known that unity of being one, when you have known

the ecstasy of it, how can you separate? Not that you have to remain together, but how can you separate? Then something of the eternal has penetrated - you are joined by god.

That is the meaning of the old term 'married in heaven' - not in the church! If that one moment of eternity happens, then you have known the other and the other has known you. And this knowledge does not destroy your mystery - in fact for the first time it opens the door to the innermost mystery.

This knowledge does not destroy the unknown. This knowledge proves that the unknown is unknowable!

[Another couple said that they wanted their relationship to go deeper. The sexual side of their relationship has not been happening. They are more like brother and sister.]

No, you have not been able to understand what is happening - you have missed. You both have failed to look into what is happening. If love goes deeper this is what happens!

If love goes deeper, husbands and wives become brothers and sisters. If love goes deeper the sun- energy becomes moon-energy: the heat is gone, it is very cool. And when love goes deeper this misunderstanding that is happening to you also happens... because we have become accustomed to that fever, passion, that excitement, and now it looks all foolish. It is foolish! Now if you make love it looks silly; if you don't make love you feel as if something is missing because of the old habit....

So you will have to understand this coolness that is coming. And of course when you start feeling as one, a fear arises. A fear about what is happening - because if you become too much one person you will start forgetting the other. The other can be remembered only as 'the other'. Psychologists say that when a child starts learning, he first utters the word 'daddy' not 'mummy'. And that hurts the mother, because she has been taking care of the child and she carried the child for nine months, she is with the child for twenty four hours, but when the child utters the first word he calls 'daddy'.

The father is just on the periphery and the mother is so close - the child is betraying her!

But there is a reason to it: the mother is so one with the child that he cannot call her yet - that's the reason. She is so one with the child that he does not have the feeling that she is the other. Daddy is not felt as being one with the child so much; he comes and goes in the morning to the office, then he is no more there. Then he comes in the evening and sometimes comes and plays with the child, and then he is gone - so he is on the go.

He can be thought of as the other. Sometimes the father is not there, but the mother is always there; the child never misses her. In fact sometimes the child will go away - he will fall asleep. When he closes his eyes she disappears, but otherwise the mother is there - so he cannot think of the mother as the other.

So first he will call 'daddy' and then, by and by, one day he will learn the word and will call 'mummy'.

The third thing is that he will learn his own name... because that is the most difficult thing for the child.

Now he can understand that the mother is also separate. Sometimes he is hungry and she does not come from the kitchen and sometimes he is wet and she is talking to somebody He starts feeling

that she is other - not absolutely one with him. But he is one with himself, so the last thing he learns is his own name.

So when two lovers start becoming one, the fear arises: 'Are you losing the other?' In a way you are, because the other will not be felt as the other - hence the idea of brotherly and sisterly love.

Why? The brotherly and sisterly love has no excitement; it is a cool thing. It is very cool and calm - no passion, no sensuality, no sexuality.

And another thing: the brother and sister have not chosen each other; it is a given phenomenon.

One day you suddenly found that you are a sister to somebody or a brother to somebody; you have not chosen. Lovers you choose. In choosing a lover there is some ego. With a sister, with a brother, there is no ego point - you have not chosen; it is god's gift. You cannot change, you cannot go to the government office, to the judge, and say that you divorce your sister and that you don't want to be a brother to her any more. Even if you decide not to be a brother, you still remain a brother - it doesn't make any difference. There is no way - it is irrevocable, you cannot revoke it.

When a husband and wife start feeling so much, a fear arises - have you started taking the other for granted? Has he become a brother or a sister, and so is no more your choice, no more your ego, no more the ego trip All these fears arise, and the past....

You know now that it is foolish, but still the past habit.... Sometimes one starts feeling that one is missing something - a sort of emptiness. But don't look at it through the past. Listen to me and look at it from the future.

Much is going to happen in this emptiness, much is going to happen in this intimacy - you will both disappear. It will become absolutely non-sexual, all heat will be gone, and then you will know a totally different quality of love. That quality that will arise in you I call prayer. But that is still in the future, that has not yet happened - you are on the way towards it. The past is gone and the future has not come.

This interim period will be a little hard, but don't think of the past. It is gone and it is gone forever - even if you try you cannot bring it back. It will be so foolish, it will feel so silly. You can drag it back, you can try, but you will fail and that will create more frustration So don't even try. Just be loving in a new way... Let this new-moon love happen.

Hold each other, be loving to each other, care, and don't hanker for the heat - because that heat was a madness, it was a frenzy; it is good that it is gone. So you should think yourselves fortunate - don't misunderstand it.

That is going to happen to each lover here - if he really listens to me and goes deep.... This is the depth you are asking for when you say that you want the love to go deep - this is the depth! The passionate love is a periphery, the compassionate love is at the centre - that is the depth.

Just enjoy it: feel blissful, meditate together, dance together. If sex disappears, let it, don't force it. If sometimes it happens, let it happen; if it disappears, let it disappear. By and by, it is going to disappear. Mm? don't be worried by it. It has not given anything, it cannot take anything away. And it is good that you feel it is silly now.

[The man says: I'm getting very bad-tempered. I don't know whether it is the heat or what it is... ]

No, my feeling is that because of this new phenomenon which you cannot understand, you may be getting angry - you may be thinking that something is going wrong. The heat that was being used in the sexual relationship is not being used now in sex - that too can become anger; the same energy can move in towards anger. So be aware of it - if you make it anger you will miss. Then again you will get hot through anger but the heat will remain.

Use that energy for more meditative purposes: dance, sing, sing together, dance together.

Sometimes sit together, just hold hands, feel the energy, sway together. Make it more subtle now.

It will be coming, mm? Don't be worried. Good!